Inaccurate Instance Recognition for Tracks in Library (ref#97LYIE)

What’s happening?

· Other

Describe the issue

Within an album, Roon has an icon to the left of the favorite icon that lists the number of instances a track is in my library. This doesn't always recognize every instance. Some albums are just ignored. How do I rectify this? I've tried re-identifying the albums in question but that doesn't work. To give an example, Rush Clockwork Angels Tour has Bravado on it but that track is not recognized as an instance in my library when I'm in Rush's Roll the Bones album. In that album Bravado is listed only for Rush in Rio and Roll the Bones, two instances, when there are three instances in my library. Interestingly, when in Clockwork Angels Tour I can click on the library icon for Bravado and it also lists the Roll the Bones and Rush in Rio instances but ignores the fact that it's part of Clockwork Angels Tour even though I'm in Clockwork Angels Tour and clicking on that track's library icon.

Describe your network setup

Spectrum router. Google Nest mesh network. Nucleus One. Playing Roon through Mac Mini and MacBook Pro.

You can read much more about this at this search link:

https://community.roonlabs.com/search?q=compositions

One of the posts you might find through the search is this one:

There are some more posts with explanations following in this same thread, as well as links from there (directly below the above linked post) to other discussions of the issue. (A quite illustrative one being the link to the „Cat Power“ thread)

You need to understand that roon is not identifying tracks. Technically it is identifying performances. But if you think of the process as identifying compositions, then it falls into place.

If you don’t have any composer tags, or roon hasn’t supplied them during the album identification process then roon cannot identify the track. However, composition identification never worked anywhere close to 100% automatically in roon. Success rates vary a lot depending on genre and the completeness of the metadata roon is able to reference.

There are a couple of manual things you can do to improve your chances:

Composers:
a) Does this track have any composer credits? If it doesn’t you need to add them manually and in the same order as the composition you are trying to match against. In this case Geddy Lane, Alex Lifeson and Neil Peart.
b) It is usually not enough just to add composer tags to the tracks. Each composer that you add must also be identified by roon. It is not uncommon to have to add artist/albums that you have no interest in just so you can get an identification of the track.
c) This last step is obviously easier with a streaming service and if you don’t want the albums you have just added cluttering your roon then you can delete them and roon will still recognise the artists.

Track Title:
It is often necessary to change the title of the track so that it matches the composition you are trying to match.

Work Title
Often, rewording the track title is not enough. In addition you will need to set a WORK tag. This will usually need to follow the syntax of the work title that roon is referencing. With certain genres these can diverge markedly from common practice or even the album notes. You can find the correct syntax by looking up the compositions on allmusic.com

Composition Browser
If you are lucky you can “merge” the orphan composition into the target composition by using the roon composition browser. Classical users use this roon feature all the time but if you want to manage compositions in other genres it is indispensable.

As you can see, going down this path may entail a great deal of manual editing. A lot of it depends on the genre / band. As a fallback, if roon is not getting all metadata (inc. composers) from its metadata suppliers, roon will look up the crowdsourced metadata on MusicBrainz. Some genres can be quite complete, for example Classical and some Jazz. The completeness of metadata from other genres depends entirely on if there are fans sufficiently motivated to spend the time completing the metadata.

Even if you complete all these editing steps, there are no guarantees that roon will identify the composition. There are plenty of posts where this has happened and then a request can be made to roon support to correct the metadata at source.

Personally, with the exception of Classical, I gave up trying to complete roon metadata systematically with other genres and only do it with albums I play regularly or are important to me.

Thank you for the detailed reply. This was very insightful. I tried a few of the steps you listed but haven’t got it to work yet. Guess I’ll keep trying. Frustrating.

Yes. Unfortunately it is a bit hit and miss although it is very genre dependent.

One trick I didn’t mention is counterintuitively just to unidentify the album. Often that will trigger composition identification by roon if you have manually added composers etc. If you prefer that result, you can then also manually add album art, venue location and dates and everything else you get from an identified album. The end result is usually almost indistinguishable from an identified album if you are prepared to do the manual editing.

Failing that, if you still have no success I would move the thread to metadata support who can ask the relevant metadata supplier to fix the composition metadata at source. If you have dozens or hundreds or even thousands of examples the editing effort involved is not very realistic TBH. It’s just a roon loose end where things “almost” work. Roon has a lot of those.

Hi @Doug_Oglesby,
Thanks for writing in to ask us about this issue. Did @tripleCrotchet’s answer help you with this issue or do you still need help?

It was helpful but not the answer I was hoping for. It seems Roon should lead the effort to try and improve the compilation process, either by working with metadata providers or coming up with a way to manually override the system. As it is the users are forced to struggle with data inconsistencies with no easy way to override it.

Hi @Doug_Oglesby,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on how we can improve Roon! We truly value your input and appreciate the time you’ve taken to communicate your ideas.

To ensure your suggestion is given the attention it deserves, we encourage you to turn your request into a post in the Feature Suggestions section of the Roon Community Forum. This is the best place for your ideas to be reviewed by both our team and the broader Roon community, as it provides an open space for discussion and prioritization of new features.

When creating your post, including as much detail as possible—such as specific use cases or examples—will help us and other users better understand the value of your idea. Thank you for helping us make Roon even better for everyone!

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