Max volume on start of playback via Airplay - Naim Mu-so & Mu-so Qb [Solved]

No you have misunderstood, it has nothing to do with Airplay2.

Its nit really something that requires debate, but debate brings exposure, which can only be a good thing when dealing with profit-based companies.

It just requires the two companies to pick up the phone and have a chat. So simple.

After NAIMS whitewashing attempt, they have at least said they would try to speak to Roon about it. We do not know if this has actually happened though, but it seems positive.

Roon however on the other side are as dead as a Vampire. This is becoming quite telling and saddening. They are sitting in their offices reading these threads and not commenting a single word. Probably having a giggle at the misfortune of others.

While this thread could be deemed as a self help thread, was it does is keep the issue alive, and the more negative comments both Naim and Roon recieve, the more likely it is they will do something. This is a sad fact of life! Negative press is a business killer and PR people are forever trying to fix things when they go wrong…

The last major Muso software update introduced Airplay2. How do you know it’s nothing to do with that?

Well,NAIM said it has nothing to do with their software for a start…

Anyhow, i am not going to get in an argument with you, you are very defensive about a problem that dosent affect you, that never ends well in a forum dialogue. I do not care who’s issue it is/was, I just want a fix, and that just needs the two companies to chat and put their heads together.

I highly doubt it is that complicated.

Naim might have said it was nothing to do with software but you did see “This ‘broke’ when NAIM released a software update”.

I’m not being defensive about anything, I just don’t like that you are quite prepared to continue to make unsubstantiated claims without having the first idea what you are talking about.

Exactly. Point made well. Good man.

Cool, good luck in your endeavours. (Ill keep the pressure on both companies till it something gets done, sorry, I wont ask your permission about my methods :slight_smile:

You may also want to look up ‘defensive’ as an adjective.

I don’t really know why I am bothering with this but to reiterate:

Do you mean the software update to Airplay2?

So by your logic, Naim should not have updated their product to the latest Airplay iteration because Roon couldn’t cope with it?

Really?

Which bit of that don’t you get?

As I said, I have little interest in your POV to be honest. There is an issue, Naim and Roon are involved, both mugged off their customers (me and others) and both have been trying to avoid any form of final recourse or repair. In fact, almost comically, trying to get their customers to force the other company to talk to each other. Its hysterical really.

The units broken after NAIM introduced new software.

Roon declared it wasnt their software.

From my understanding on this thread so far.

So by my logic, someone is to blame. Thats my logic. If there is no blame to had and its just a freak occurence, then both companies should do the adult thing and have a chat and then report back to their customers.

If this angers you, my advice is to seek professional help to overcome.

With some reluctance, I post this from PART of a discussion with Roon @support , after Naim’s developers had investigated, as it will offer alternative views on the MuSo volume issue. After these posts support went silent, possibly with good cause. It should have promoted some discussion between the two parties (Roon & Naim) but there is no evidence to show that any discussion took place. Here it is, make your own conclusions (sorry about the HTML formatting).

& on September 8th

Hi Paul,

This one has ended up bounced back to Naim as the 3rd party who deal with that part can’t deal with it, as they claims its a compliance issue in the Airplay2 library and how Roon have a reversed engineered solution of Airplay1. It would be very awkward for Roon if we push it through the official channels to get it fixed, as Apple won’t look kindly that Roon are shipping a commericial product with hacked keys in it.

I’ll take another look next week and see if we can put a dirty hack in, like encourage a few volume writes to go through the system to get rid of these vol 100’s. Apologies this one has dragged on - it’s a very awkward one as Airplay2 is under strict compliance & certification and hence its very awkward to report issues that are outside of that eco-system.

Best

Steve

Steve Harris

Software Director

www.naimaudio.com

Blockquote

As you can see the matters raised are certainly sensitive & suggest a number of issues. I would appreciate a response to the issues raised but more importantly community members would be interested to know what the Roon team are doing to achieve a resolution with Naim.

Those of us using work arounds to overcome the issues are suffering some inconvenience and are not able to achieve the high quality sound reproduction that the MuSo is capable of.

Kind regards

Paul

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Sep 25

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mike

PixelPopper

noris

dylan

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norisRoon Labs: Support

Sep 25

Hello @PixelPopper,

Thank you for keeping us in the loop on this. The information you’ve received from Steve is accurate, and they’ve acknowledged to us that the fix will need to be implemented on their end.

To provide some additional context, we completed a thorough investigation regarding this issue in May. After consulting with Naim we implemented a potential fix on our side and handed their team a beta build for testing. This fix improved the behavior, but ultimately did not prevent the issue from occurring. It was then determined that the fix must be developed by Naim.

We remain willing to do whatever work is necessary to get this resolved as soon as possible. Roon continues to work with other AirPlay devices without issue, sans one other device containing the same network module as the Muso.

It should be noted that while our Airplay implementation was not developed with Apple or sanctioned by them, the implementation does not use “hacked” keys and should have no impact on the volume control behavior of the device.

We’ll be sure to keep the thread updated as we receive progress updates on the fix.

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PixelPopperPaul

1

Sep 25

Hi Noris,

Thank you for your response & I appreciate the clarification on the “keys issue,” mentioned by Steve, which confirms my thoughts on this matter.
I understand that progress is slow & no doubt with good reason. However the feedback in the “100% volume” thread from the Roon team, has been poor over the last 10 months which is reflected by the contributors comments. Even if there is nothing to say; end user’s experiencing common problems need some reassurance that work is in hand to resolve their problems.
The large volume of support enquires must demand a considerable amount of your time so, as end users, we understand the need for patience in resolving issues, an occasional but regular update from the Roon Team (& Naim) would alleviate many of the frustrations expressed in community posts.
Thanks again for taking the time to respond.
Kind regards, Paul.

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Hello Everyone,

We understand and share the frustration many of you are expressing in this thread – we’ve worked closely with Naim over the last year to look into this issue, and we’ve put a significant amount of effort and technical resources into trying to identify a workaround for this problem.

To be clear, while Roon’s Airplay implementation is not endorsed by Apple, it is fully functional with a vast array of Airplay devices across the Roon user base, none of which display this symptom. The issues described in this thread appear to only occur with a single Airplay module which is used in the original Mu-so, Mu-so Qb, and one other Airplay device.

Our initial discussion with Naim determined that a firmware update to this module had introduced this behavior when the Mu-so is used in AirPlay 1 compatibility mode. The Naim team suggested a workaround, which we implemented and released in April.

Unfortunately, that workaround did not resolve the issues affecting this module in all cases. Further coordination with Naim focused on a fix to be implemented in their firmware, and while both companies were optimistic about a beta firmware for the devices in early June, further testing found that this too did not resolve the issues affecting this module in all scenarios.

Our past investigations found that we were not able to implement a workaround that consistently prevented the module from displaying these symptoms, and we’ve had broad agreement that the best way to resolve this issue would be via a firmware update for this module.

Our understanding now is that it may not be practical for Naim to address these issues in a firmware update, so while we are planning to schedule some additional time for our engineers to revisit this issue we need to be clear that we’re not optimistic about a workaround that is 100% effective, since anything we implement will simply be papering over a problem that lives elsewhere.

Obviously, both companies would like this resolved as soon as possible, and we’ll do whatever we can to get this product working with Roon just as well as other Airplay devices in our test lab. We appreciate everyone’s patience.

3 Likes

Thanks @mike a welcome comment. Those of us that have suffered this issue for the past year would appreciate occasional feedback on progress, even if there is none. Comments made by Roon & Naim suggesting individuals make contact with the ”opposite” company to effect a resolution has clouded the issued and created a very poor impression.

Regards

5 Likes

Thanks Paul, without your diligence and civilized approach to communications, and your recent update, we would still be in the dark. Hopefully it helps to align resources to work towards a practical solution.

In the spirit of full disclosure an early morning follow up from Charlie Henderson, MD at Naim.

Good morning Oscar.
I just wanted to assure you that we are still actively looking into this topic. I’ve been in direct contact during Friday with the Roon CEO, who is currently traveling in Asia. We’re talking together to try and find a solution that addresses the issue which appears to centre on the fact that Mu-so and Qb 1st Generation is Airplay 2 Certified by Apple, but that Roon does not fully support Airplay 2. Please bear with us in the meantime and I hope you have a good weekend,
Cheers
Charlie

(In a follow up he also pointed at the work around of limiting max volume through the Naim app)

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Ozzie, thanks for your contribution & support. It looks as though Roon & Naim have got some direction at last. It’s rather unfortunate that we, as end users have had to do so much “prompting.”

Roon have been “reminded” in other threads that communication with end users needs some serious “attention.” The support team are pretty much among the best I have experienced for supporting individuals with problems but on larger scale issues (such as this) they do tend to “drop the ball” on occasions.

Hopefully this Volume problem will receive the attention, urgency & level of communication that it deserves after eleven months.
My fingers are firmly crossed.

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Absolutely, hard to argue against! I have made both point myself on this forum in different context.

I want to believe that ‘first line’ support was really not in a position to comment, and perhaps the escalation which would/should normally occur to prevent unintentional comms (or lack thereof) mishap got hampered by the Catalina fire-fighting, and everything else they surely got on their plate.

That’s Devon positivity for you, albeit from an imported Dutchman. Once this is solved in an agreeable way, I’ll open an almost local beer called ‘proper job’ and will be happy to toast the Roon @support team as well as Naim. Hopefully not before long! :crossed_fingers:
(OK, it’s Cornish so perhaps I shouldn’t. Maybe a - get out of - Jail Ale from Dartmoor is the better option :wink:)

Edit:I would even ship either, or ‘Summa That’ from Branscombe too them, if it helps! :grinning:

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Of course the otter brewery products as well…:beers::beers::beers:

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Thankyou Roon @support for the update and the promise of scheduling tech time to find a solution.

Finally it feels like we have been heard. Which is all anyone wanted really.

Looking forward to seeing a fix in the near future.

Thanks to @PixelPopper and @ToneDeaf for getting stuck in as well!

2 Likes

and in the meantime…

A Chromecast audio device bought off eBay is a fairly unobtrusive plug in to either Naim device, is recognised by Roon and will stream at high quality without the 100% volume problem

The Mu-So will not automatically power on when chromecast is connected, so we might as well just get ready on the Mu-So volume control and save the money.

If you have somehwere that you can run the lms-to-upnp software then Muso’s work well using this, including volume control.

I use this on my 3 Muso QB’s and also my Naim NDS.