My hifi journey + what would you do?

This is gonna be a long(ish) one, so please bear with me.

About 2 years ago, I had too much spare time (and money apparently?), so what better way to spend time (and money), than to upgrade my hifi system (which is hindsite was not necessary I guess). I’ve had my system since 2003 if I recall correctly. It consisted of a Rotel RA-1062 (2x60 integrated amp) and a Rotel RCD-1072 CD player. (Connected via RCA cables, so no fancy DAC.) Speakers were DSL R55 tower speakers. After I initially bought the system, I really never considered doing anything to it, as I liked everything about it. Sound, looks, everything.

In early 2014 we bought a small stylish internet radio with Spotify connect and line out, that we connected via mini stereo jack to RCA to the amp. Everything was fine, and I never really felt the need to do anything. We just listened to music and everything sounded fine. We got our first child in 2014, and the convenience of having all our CD’s in an app + every CD we could ever think of, resulted in us never using the CD player. As time went by, the CD player did not work well anymore. The few times we tried to use it after we started streaming, the CD player skipped and jumped tracks. I got it cleaned at a hifi repair shop, but that didn’t fix the “problem”. I was told that, there was nothing to clean, and it might be because of vibrations, and that I should try to put the amp on top of the CD player. In over 15 years I’ve had the amp under the CD player, so it seemed illogical to me, that that would solve anything. And in fact it didn’t. No difference. Still skipping and jumping around on tracks like a madman. I could live without the CD player as we never used it anyway.

Then came the digital TV out “problem” on our new TV, that we (mostly me) wanted to connect to the amp, so we could get good audio from the hifi speakers. That required a DAC, so I bought a 50$ S/PDIF & COAX to analog converter, and connected it to our amp. I know now, that the DAC was probably the worst DAC ever made in history, but it did the job. One day our “streaming radio” died, and I got a SONOS connect box instead. Connected it to the DAC via COAX and continued with Spotify that way. Again. Everything worked as required, so no need to upgrade. At this point in time, I felt that there was quite a pileup of boxes and cables, and I could probably find a smarter all-in-one solution. At that point everything went downhill :person_facepalming:t2: On to the interwebs and reading reviews and watching videos of idiot audiophile YouTubers. I wish I never went down that rabbit hole.

Anyway. My first attempt to upgrade was the 2nd gen. Bluesound Powernode. It was buggy as hell (imho), and if I plugged a pair of headphones in the socket on the front, the speakers would still play at a very low volume! As I investigated, it turned out, that Bluesound at that point in time, was basically a beta product, with soooo many hiccups and angry users, so I returned it.

Next step was an integrated Marantz 60something If recall correctly. The sound from that unit was an obvious downgrade in sound quality from the Rotel (imho). To be fair I didn’t give it much time, so maybe I could have done something to better it, but right out of the box, I didn’t like it. So it got returned. Next unit was a Quad Vena II integrated amp. Lovely piece of kit. When I unpacked it, one of the binding posts was loose and rattled. Brand new unit. Returned it and didn’t want to do anything Quad again. Until this point most things were bought online.

I then went to a local hifi dealer with a budget of 500$. I drove home with a 1500$(!!! :person_facepalming:t2:) Roksan streaming amp. I really liked the design of the unit but over a weekend, I encountered numerous freezes/lockups, that required an “power unplug” reboot. Also the unit had an audible hum. That went back to the store. Then I tried a Hegel H190 (approx 2000$). I really like the design of the Hegel, but it didn’t sound any better/different than my old Rotel, and the remote was a pain to operate. The Hegel also had an obvious audible hum. Side note: Hegel is a whole other story so don’t get me started on Roon integration, “audiophile” airplay and sota DAC on the Hegels [image]. Back it went. Although I’ve already then “travelled long miles” in my hifi journey, I was basically still at my starting point.

Watching more idiot YouTubers, I fell in love with the Solidsteel speaker stands, and as my tower speakers obviously did not fit the stands, I was suddenly looking for other speakers. Don’t ask me what part of my brain, that got that brilliant idea to get new speakers, when my quest initially was and all-on-one amp solution - definitely not speakers! Only first world problems I’m embarrassed to admit. My favourite local dealer had a “cheap” demo pair of gorgeous white ATC SCM19 (2200$ retail) that would fit my new stands well, so I bought them. (I’dont care how they measure, they sound like a million dollars in my opinion!) Next problem was getting an amp that could drive the darn good looking boxes. My Rotel 60W integrated did not have a chance to give them any justice, so I had to go back to my initially plan, and look at an all-in-one solution - now with a minimum of 100W and preferably 150W per channel. In the mean time I discovered the wonders of HDMI in hifi, and of course had to get an integrated with HDMI.

I got a Cambridge EVO 150. Everything fit the bill in that unit. 2x150W, HDMI, Roon, Spotify, Tidal, Airplay (if I recall correctly) and good looks. What a nightmare that unit was. I had soo many software related problems with the EVO (2000$ retail), that I could’nt believe it. It reminded me of Windows ME. I tried to contact Cambridge support numerous times but with no help. The usual “try to reboot, factory reset etc noob help)” I could try and wait, and maybe they could fix the problem in a future software update. I got a replacement unit from the dealer, as I’ve only had it for a few weeks. The 2nd unit was a never batch, and would probably work better. It did not [image] The unit would turn on and off randomly, the screen would flicker and go black. The 2nd unit was even worse than the first. I got my money back. Never Cambridge Audio again.

I then fell in love with (mostly with the reviews from the same idiot YouTubers) the Audiolab 6000A. I found a 2nd hand unit cheap(ish), and bought it. In my haste to burn my money, I forgot it did not have HDMI and was way underpowered for my new speakers :person_facepalming:t2:. The 6000A is really nice to the feel, the remote is garbage though but it sounds great with the right speakers I’ll imagine. So after a few weeks I sold it with a small profit. What now?

My experience with the EVO made me very concerned about all-in-one solutions, so I wanted to go “oldschool” and look for separates from now on. I ended up with an ATC P2 power amp and ATC SC2 preamp (both 2K$ retail). That combo made the speakers sing like small angels. I got a D10S DAC for that system (and I’ve had jumped boats from Spotify to Roon and Qobuz by now), and I was really enjoying the system. After a few months my favourite hifi dealer got a pair of gorgous ATC SCM40 in white satin finish. I quickly forgot about my love afair with the Solidsteel stands, and traded in the SCM19 for the SCM40’s. Before I got the SCM40’s home we had to move to a new place, where I could get a 30m2 mancave in the basement so everything was ideal for me. Or so I thought. The basement was all concrete, and sound management was a war I’d rather be without. But looking back I now know a lot about acoustic treatment that I would not know otherwise, so I guess that the process was not totally in vain. Anyway. The build of energy in the basement with that setup, would result in physical earache (unbelieveable pressure) and a room mode at around 35-40hz that could jumpstart a freight train! My dealer was very understing to my situation and offered me to return all my gear I bought from him. Where should I go from here?

All of sudden I had forgotten that all-in-one solutions was a big fat NO, so I got a pair of KEF LS50 ll wireless :person_facepalming:t2:. I had them for a weekend, and then returned them. They sounded OK, but not much better than a pair of stereo paired SONOS ONE’s. I could not get HDMI to work properly with a Samsung TV, and had quite a few software hiccups. I also encountered numerous connection fails between the two speakers during the weekend I had them. There was no way on earth that I would consider a price tag close to 2K$ for those boxes. The finish on them are not great either.

A few weeks later I must have lost all common sense and got total memory blackout, because I got so excited about a pair of ATC SCM40A (the active version of the speakers that did NOT work in my mancave), that I could acquire with a substantial rebate, that I thought it was a brilliant idea get buy a set of 8K$ speakers + 2K$ preamp that would NOT work in my current situation. How stupid are you allowed to be! :person_facepalming:t2::person_facepalming:t2::person_facepalming:t2:

After I got the SCM40A’s I did do some substantial sounds treatment, that would radically change the properties of the room, but pressure buildup was still a problem I couldn’t find a practically solution for. If you’re still with me, then please remember all of this was a result of me trying to eliminate too many boxes in my setup and to get HDMI. Still no HDMI but a kick åss hifi system I really never needed, and a 10K$ hole in my (our) wallet :person_facepalming:t2: My new “dream speakers” did simply not fit into my current hifi situation. I talked to my favourite dealer (probably the best and most kind and overbearing hifi dealer in the world) about my situation, and we made an arrangement, where I get some money back, and can get gear for the rest of the value the setup has.

I had given away my speakers to my mom and amp/CD to my sister. My mom moved recently and did not have space for the speakers, so I got them back. I had to get some kind of amp, so I bought a 2nd hand Denon AVR X1100W with the notorious defect display issue for 30$(!). It has HDMI (wink wink) [image] To be honest it sounds great with my speakers (in direct mode) and my room, but the grass is always greener… So I browsed used hifi, and found a pair of “as new” Argon Forte A55 MK ll active speakers. 50% off the retail price and HDMI and analog/digital input. They sound great. Or should I say sounded in pretence. The speakars has an auto detect signal feature, that I could really not get to work satisfactory with my new Panasonic OLED television. About 50% of the time we turned on the tv, the speakers would not turn on. I think I’ve tried every HDMI related setting on the tv with no success. The optical input was also considerable more quiet than the RCA inputs?!? I don’t know why. If my only use case was listening to music (connected to a D10S DAC “fed” with Roon from a Ropieee PI4) I would have kept them. They sound really great. But still no (working) HDMI. They were easy to sell again though.

So to sum it up. I’ve still got the same speakers I bought in 2003 paired with a “defect” budget AVR amp that sounds fine with my current “hifi” situation. And did I mention that HDMI works flawlessly [image] I use Roon over Airplay and that’s fine too. I still have about 3K$ to spend at my dealer that’s marked for hifi, so “unfortunately” I’m in a situation where I have to use them on some kind of hifi. Poor me [image] Looking back I don’t know what I was thinking with my initial 500$ budget ending up at 10K$. Typical “audiophile” logic I guess. Maybe I should leave my finances to my 8 year old son or 9 year old daughter. They’d probably manage it more wisely than me :person_facepalming:t2: :smiley:

If you had an empty hifi rack, two empty spots on the floor and 3K$ to burn on hifi, what would you do today and why?

Thank you for reading this far. I really appreciate it!

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I can give you my bank account #??

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More speakers to hook up to the Denon? Go full surround sound!

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I wonder what kind of vibrations does an amp produce. But keeping a CD player on top of the amp does sound like possibly bad idea – might interfere with amp cooling, and would warm the CD player up.

Chances are it was a better DAC than anything PS Audio, or Rega, or many other hi-fi companies made in their entire history.

So you paid $1300 for the Roksan name :slight_smile:

If you still want an all-in-one, I find that Rose RS520 works really well with Roon. Never tried HDMI on it though.

Amps in the Denon (if it has a pure analogue path) are probably perfectly fine. You could spend some of that budget on a Roon Ready streamer/DAC and it should work somewhat better than Airplay.

Something like an EverSolo DMP-A6 for a streamer/DAC, and whatever speakers plus sub you can buy with leftover money…

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I’m thinking that we should speak directly to the 9 year old daughter :wink:

But seriously now, if the Denon is still up to the task I’m liking @Boris_Molodyi idea with the Eversolo DMP A6 to the cd input of the Denon in Pure Direct mode.

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I use RCA into CD inputs on Denon AVR-2805 running in Pure Direct mode. My DAC is a Meridian Prime. Speakers are Pioneer HPM-60’s.

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Looks like it :slight_smile:

Denons are generally pretty good. I’m doing something similar with my Rose 250 (EverSolo didn’t exist when I got it) into an old Yamaha receiver CD input. THere’s a dedicated “Pure Direct” input, but activating it kills display and does some other silly audiophile things, so CD in straight analog mode it is.

Really works quite well, and either 250 or the EverSolo do look nice, with their big screens showing what’s playing or pretend VU meters :slight_smile:

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You’ve almost got enough for a pair of KEF LS50 WII speakers and a KEF KC62 sub. In the US, those KEF speakers typically sell for $2,799 but are on sale until somewhere around the end of the year for $1,999.

You might still want stands, though.

This would be a fully Roon-ready, self contained setup. In my opinion, not a bad option.

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Quite a story (I read of the trials and tribulations from start to finish). I can imagine myself happy with a number of the system iterations.

Software glitches aside, I wonder if any of the dissatisfaction could have been solved by a different approach to setup.

I highly recommend investing $60 in this book and the companion music (format doesn’t matter. Just pick one).

This is far less about a financial investment and more about dedicating your time. It won’t be as much as you think. I read the book, literally cover to cover, in a Saturday afternoon. I spent the next Saturday working through the setup process, starting at around page 100 (it’s large print).

Paul McGowan is not to everyone’s tastes, but there are genuinely helpful instructions in this book, most of which can’t be fully appreciated until one has physically worked through them.

I promise it will be the best $60 and two Saturdays you’ve ever spent on Hi-Fi. What you learn by doing will equip you to hear your room and system like never before. What you learn in the process will lead to optimal decision making when it comes to spending that $3k you have in store credit with your dealer.

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Buy ONE pair of nice headphones and a comfy chair , saves all the woes you outline

The only thing to worry about is how long the cable is :smiling_imp:

But seriously I have used Quad and Cambridge Audio for a good portion of my listening , you must have got Friday Afternoon Models. Or Quad have gone downhill in the last 20 years

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I was reading your story with a smile because I went through a very similar journey since 2020. I had lived happily for 15 years with a NAD C325BEE amp and a pair of B&W DM302 speakers, alongside a Pioneer Elite SACD. Then the search for a way to stream with decent quality and comfort made me buy a Node 2i. From then on the “what if?” question took over and gradually the whole hifi system was replaced, with a few “intermediate” choices along the way. However, I was happy to not having had faulty equipment or even bad sounding one. The key issue for me was to stop being overwhelmed with reviews and news about the next best thing, especially in the digital domain. So, I’m happy now with a main system comprising a Hegel H120 and a pair of Revels Performa M3 106, coupled with a Rega Apollo CD and a NUC for Roon. I totally understand people who prefer separates, or a different set of gear, but the AIO H120 is working really well for me, including the integration with Roon and with the TV. I also ended up with a Head-hi system combining the Zen Stream, with the Ifi Zen Dac V2 and the old H600 (that I love), integrated with Roon. So, I stopped wondering if new gear would make this better and just enjoy the pleasures of music. In this day and age we’re bombarded with information and with comments that make you feel you’re using the wrong gear and don’t know what you’re missing. Lots of people with very deep pockets who totally lost contact with the reality of most fellow music lovers and claim that you can´t enjoy good sound with components that cost less than 10000 USD or even more (much more!). It is also annoying to put up with the other side, always telling you that the 50 USD DAC is all you need. So, you have to find your way amidst all this noise and get it right for you, considering your listening preferences and room conditions. We’ve never had so much choice but it’s never been so difficult to decide what suits you best. Cheers

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Cut and paste into favorite AI?

I’ve never had this experience :smirk:.

I read the whole thing. (I ooze stamina.)

What I want to know: how much money did you “waste”? That is, money spent on stuff you don’t use anymore; In today’s dollars. Don’t forget to include inflation and opportunity cost (you can use 4% discount rate if you wish).

Unless there is a glaring hole in your audio entertainment life, and there is no time parameter on spending the $3K, I’d wait for the either, a) the next big thing, or b) the next equipment failure. If there is a time parameter, maybe some acoustic treatments (fix the room rather than the equipment) and/or a well regarded subwoofer. And that book @OffRode recommended.

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Not much actually. Maybe a few hundred dollars in total, which is not much considering the context. But I have 3K that I can only buy gear for. I can’t get them in cash, which is totally fine with me.

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That’s exactly what I was thinking. I have no hurry at the moment. I have no “last chance” on the 3K I have in gear at my hifi dealer.

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I know the feeling, obviously :roll_eyes: But I no longer have the urge to upgrade anything. My next system is going to be my endgame system or until new tech is made, that make my system obsolete - which I doubt will happen in my lifetime (I’m from 1979).

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I need to crank the volume a bit higher than “sane” if other people are to enjoy the music with me :grinning:

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Maybe. I have a background as a sound engineer, and I have experience from studio productions, so I know the basics. But treating a concrete basement is a whole other task, than toeing in speakers and “light” adjustments. But thanks for the tip. Maybe I can get the book at my library.

PS audio gear does not measure very well, and although I find Paul very sympathetic, I think he’s a dinosaur. I’m in the science camp, and not the subjective camp I can reveal. But that’s just me.

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Did you read my experience with those speakers? :face_with_raised_eyebrow: