Are you not able to? If you really want it, you shouldn’t care about anybody’s whining. If you do care, then maybe you find some truth in that. The more valid points of view, the more informed the decision.
That sounds like saying “good job!” when you know it’s far from good. That may work as positive reinforcement for kids, but, as it was pointed out here, we are adults.
It says something about competition.
Heft = Magazine issue no./year
Blue square = optimal price/value ratio
Exactly. Harman is not making any ludicrous claims about it, and I don’t think its existence is in any way more of a problem than existence of jeans that cost $1000 when perfectly fine pair can be had for $20.
On the other hand, people demanding that the thread be closed because somebody said something about purchasing it not being a rational act based on performance… that’s more of a problem.
If one is buying, let’s say a Titan, for its appearance (and possible for Harman standing behind the product) – no problem there. If someone is buying because they believe that it will sound better (again, not that Harman marketed it as such, but there are enough servers, no different from Titan, albeit even more overpriced, for which such claims are made) it might be worthwhile to reiterate, for the common good, that no, it can not and does not.
If I were paying $3700 base price for something I’d want opinions and advice. Before spending that sort of money I do a lot of research and soak up information from forums, I’d be glad of this thread.
We all need some kind of Roon server afterall.
Most people would be delighted to be told they could get the same functionality and get started with Roon for a fraction of the cost of a Titan, there’s nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, those people are free to ignore it and do whatever.
No one has bought a Titan yet have they? Telling someone who has spent a fortune on one that they were gullible would not be something I would do, I see no value in that, but I would give them the information pre purchase for them to then do whatever they want.
This is not audio gear, it’s a NUC, please remember that, it will not affect the sound in any way.
It comes across that people don’t like negativity directed at Roon or their products and become very protective.
Not to worry, I’m out.
No. I see no hints that a fancy server solution by roon, may it be Nucleus+ or Titan, is ´far from good´. I believe they are exactly doing what they were meant to do, giving exactly the smooth experience buyers expect from them. And that most of systems which might even looks like an obscure solution are actually making their users happy and I feel with them even if this is no hardware for me.
I see much more point in public criticism and warnings when it comes to expensive products which are not keeping up performance-wise with the standards. There are some third party high end servers around which are questionable in terms of their computing capacities, which might lead to problems running roon on them.
Funnily, these are not subject to public criticism, and I could bet some of these are an alternative for people willing to spend 5 Grand and being told ´Titan is just a NUC in disguise, buy something else´. They might end up with either none or a bad server.
It might surprise some people, but when it comes to expensive servers, many hi-fi dealers tell questionable stuff about better sound quality and they sell questionable things for a lot of money as those customers in particular do not care for the budget. They care for a good overall solution.
I do not see people here being protective about roon as a company. It is rather protecting roon as a way of experiencing music which gets way too less public attention and which can only be successful only if all possible ways are equally accepted and promoted. The bigger the roon community, the better for everyone of us.
I would never come to the idea of running roon on a MacBook, and 100 reasons come to my mind why this might be a bad idea. But I would never tell it to anyone having opted for that solution. It is so cool that it is possible!
It is not a question if I personally care about people criticizing my gear. I can gladly accept every comment despising my informed decision and really do not care about any insult. And as far as I oversee most of discussions I have done everything crucially haram in the eyes of the NUC-purists, from paying a premium of 500 bucks for a living-room-approved server case to using the HDMI/USB output to having a Celeron CPU.
If I would have listened to those telling me over and over again it cannot work and I need a NUC and ROCK, I would have ended up with listening to Qobuz and having a MinimServer or whatever, but not using roon at all.
I see a lot of potential buyers for whom servers and hi-fi and roon are in general not a priority of interest but who might feel rather repelled by such discussions eventually bringing them to not using roon (but Apple Music or Tidal or whatever). That’s what I call a sadly missed opportunity.
I’m sure if one of the servers you alude to turned out to be a re boxed small computer, it will get attention, I’m not aware of any.
I’d never trust a sales person alone, I research on forums for user experience before buying anything high value.
Roon should help protect itself if it wants to sell hardware by developing innovative products. That responsibility is theirs, do this and people won’t feel they need to protect them or the products they sell.
Pointing out that a product is a reboxed NUC doesn’t make someone a purist. I have a NUC and am as equally purist about it as I am my refrigerator or the type of air in my car tyres, it does a task that is all. Your earlier references to “self-soldered NUC” earlier are misleading untruths too.
I don’t, if they visit this forum they will likely discover from this thread and many others, the many ways to trial and test Roon. It’s what I did.
If you want Roon to grow it needs to appeal to younger people, pushing a $4k base price server won’t help with that. Selling more affordable options will
So maybe it is not relevant for users if it is a recased computer or not?
No. This was an ironic term from the perspective of someone wanting a plug&play solution considering to buy a Titan. I personally have highest respect for people tinkering with NUCs and the higher the DIY and complication factor the more I admire it. We just should be honest to ourselves recognizing that this is not a preferred solution for potential new roon users.
I do not think this is the case. If you look at how a younger generation - let us say a typical Spotify user - is handling music, it is so far from what roon can offer at the moment. That might eventually change if there would be some kind of light version for 1 or 2 bucks a month, fully cloud-based computing, seamless mobile integration and library management closer to Spotify´s app.
On the other hand, there is a big number of people who are changing from traditional hi-fi to something streaming based. They have money, they buy fancy TVs and smart speakers, they have time to care for their music, they have in many cases a curated local library. If they see the benefit and get to know the user experience without having to deal with network and computer gear, they might buy Titan as well as they have been buying Nucleus+. That is the No.1 potential buyer group I see to join the roon community.
In my opinion these devices have to be locked into the basement. Far a way from the music room. But there are people who want to look at this nice boxes.
Top plate is removable.
Out of curiosity what is a price of top plate alone?
Coupled with the “NUC Purists” remark, that is exactly how it came across. I don’t want to upset people on the periphery by mentioning someting more than once (even if they could just ignore the thread), but a NUC has the option of being a self build project, it can also be purchased pre-built from local computer stores, giving the user a local support option should they need it, the “tinkering” is not necessary. We should be honest with ourselves here?
I think you’re giving “new Roon users” less credit than they probably deserve, many people have the skills to self build or are prepared to learn how to self build, the same people who, as teenagers, learned how to change the oil and brake pads on their cars to save some money.
Take a look at the thread here for Nucleus support nightmare, Quite the advert for prospective puchasers.
Pointing out that there are far more cost effective options than a Titan, doing exactly the same thing is a fair point and once again, I don’t care what people buy, I want them to be informed however & this thread & others (and I dare say future threads) will do just that.
Here’s where I exit the discussion.
Lots of hand wringing over the Titan. If one doesn’t like it, then one shouldn’t buy it. Pretty simple, no?
I love my revA Nucleus Plus and have zero plans to upgrade ATM, but really appreciate the design that went into the Titan. It would be foolish of Roon to not attempt to capture more of the higher-end market while myriad other companies swoop-in. Roon will provide a thoroughly well-designed product with full factory support; a plug and play appliance. Pretty sure it will also have a return policy.
This speaks to long term growth and penetration into a segment of the market that Roon has simply ceded to others thus far. I think it’s great and love to see it, even if it may not be for me.
At the end of the day, those of us who have been critical or snarky about the Titan don’t object to the device itself, or even the cost, (like others’ have said, it’s your money) but to the idea that somehow the Roon experience will be better with one of the their own $$$ devices.
Oh really? So the Titan comes with software that finally delineates box sets? Or doesn’t slow down every few days or weeks, necessitating a restart? Or doesn’t use up a third of the screen saying “Hi Charles?” and useless stats when there are basic functions that should go there instead? Or has customizable menus and home page? Search is much better for $4k?
Ok, you get the idea. But hey, you can get it in with a wood or metal top! That looks like an adult version of a case on a gaming computer. What’s not to love?
I disagree. Roon, first and foremost, makes software. At one end of the spectrum, they could simply stay with software. At the other end, you might as well say that they have to offer some sort of endpoint and maybe even a DAC. Why not speakers too? It’s like saying that Adobe has to offer standalone photo/video editing consoles, or maybe color-calibrated monitors. They’re pretty successful without.
Also, most software, Roon included, doesn’t require specialized hardware, so there’s no need for a “DIY server” per se, just a computer, not necessarily headless, and not necessarily running 24/7. For people who absolutely dread installing a piece of software on a pre-configured computer, virtually anyone who doesn’t dread installing a piece of software can do it for them.
A legitimate position but one seemingly ignoring how the market for hi-fi, high end audio and music reproduction in general works. There was no-one (like dealers) willing to sell a software-only solution, no-one among consumers was used to a pretty pricy subscription model that offers neither content (like a streaming service) nor hardware nor improved sound quality but simply convenience and usability.
To offer a server like Nucleus is not an obligation like ´roon have to offer´, it is rather a possibility to reach potential users who would never get in contact with a software-only product otherwise.
I agree, there is no need. But if you look at what high end audio and luxury/lifestyle consumers, especially those being in the market for a music server, expect and how they decide for a particular product, there is different picture. They simply do not want to have a computer connected to their hifi/AV gear. They want an easy installation with the minimum of installation steps required, always running without thinking about it and with the least of potential hassle points possible.
As a company like roon, you either do something to meet the demand of potential new users - and Nucleus/+/Titan are good solutions in my understanding - or you loose these customers to something easier like Apple Music or Spotify App on their iPad.
Of course, it should not end with a nice posh product like Nucleus Titan. Ideally, there will be a more affordable Nucleus as well and lots of steps towards potential customers to make it as easy as possible.
Looks like new models coming soon as per Roons reply to a recent enquiry of mine:
“> Thank you for your interest in Roon.
We are afraid that all Nucleus and Nucleus Plus models are permanently out of stock. We are not going to ship them anymore.
We are working on the implementation of new models. The exact launch date is not available. We will have an update shortly, so please keep an eye on our website”.
So the Titan is a replacement for the Nucleus after all.
I always figured the Nucleus was basically to help out custom installers. You put in a Nucleus, add a lifetime license, and your customer is all set. I assume they’ll keep some kind of similar capability once they’ve adapted to the new NUC models from Asus.
However, it’s alarming to see a software company branch out into “luxury” (i.e., very overpriced for the functionality) hardware. It’s alarming to see any company stray from their core competence, of course, but going into the luxury market seems to me to reflect a certain amount of contempt for the customer. The original Nucleus was kind of overpriced, but the Titan (if it’s similar to the CES thingy in price and basically a NUC inside) seems to be amping that up a bit. I’m hoping wiser heads will prevail.
People usually push back on pricey items that don’t add real value, but in this forum, I see a lot of… um… “push-forward” (asking for $10K servers or begging Roon to charge more for software), so chances are it will be a hit. Maybe I should get into the business of selling embellished small computers (not green) and retire early.
The ‘problem’ is, is the new Titan just an 535i masquerading as an M5?
From provisional specs, it looks that way…?