Then maybe the answer is Roon will not survive. But I don’t think this is the case… Roon can survive just fine with Tidal and Qobuz, frankly.
The other aspect that I am missing here is: Why do we care? I have both Tidal and Qobuz because the content coverage is not exactly the same, and there are VERY few instances where something is only available in Spotify or Apple Music that is not available in Tidal and/or Qobuz.
As for metadata improvements, Primephonic and/or Presto might provide an edge there.
For the record, I also subscribe to Spotify (music at the gym, streaming to SONOS, etc) and I get Apple Music for free from my cell provider. I use them all and don’t miss Spotify or Apple Music at all when using Roon.
Apple purchased Primephonic to solve its problem with Classical Music.
In 2019 it has less than 100,000 subscribers…
“But running a music-streaming service is a challenge. You need a lot of money and a lot of lawyers to get to the size of Spotify just to work out where [all the money is going] the verge 2018
Even then, it’s difficult to be profitable. Only this year did the streaming giant [make money] engadget 2019, and other platforms such as Tidal have been repeatedly plagued by [poor profits] gizmodo
For Primephonic, Steffens (CEO) says the company needs to have 100,000 subscribers for several years to break even. It’s not there yet.” PC Mag 2019
Primephonic CEO Thomas Steffans said that the split between the two subscriptions was roughly 45/55 with most opting for the higher audio quality.”
Apple have a big problem with hi-res/lossless with customers wanting to use hi quality music systems (not just audiophiles) even though their executive team doesn’t believe more than 0.1% can tell the difference.
That problem is that an Apple iOS device needs to be tethered to a DAC to experience HiRes (AirPlay is lossless but not Hi-Res). Roon solves this and is also a more elegant solution than AirPlay. It’s not necessarily about bagging just another mere 100,000 subscribers, but enabling a better user experience. Particularly for those Classical music enthusiasts and those wanting to explore Classical Music for the first time.
They could have created their own Classical Music app but it wouldn’t have been easy or entirely legal just to copy an already elegant solution, hence the acquisition. I’m not suggesting Apple would/could acquire Roon but integrating would be an elegant solution.
It’s the same reason they have disallowed for the most part from apps selling subscriptions outside the App Store.
And regardless of our quibbles on how much or how little data Apple can collect, the downside for Apple is enough and their business model is such that there’s still no way they will allow third party integration.
I think it also diminishes their brand quality. Apple positions itself as a customer-facing brand and a premium one at that. Being the backend for some small company like Roon is just not part of their brand–and I’d argue not good for them. (I don’t necessarily argue for Apple, I’m just saying that if I were their marketing guy, that’s what I’d do.) Plus don’t forget that Apple’s ethos is to have a closed ecosystem, not an open one (with Roon for example).
There’s very little upside for Apple with Roon integration.
So I stand by what I said: it AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN. I’ll promise to buy a hat, eat it and post a video of me doing so if the integration does happen.
That is a good question and I also agree Roon could survive with Tidal and Qobuz but will Tidal and Qobuz survive?
I love Roon and what it does for my CD/download collection, but we are a niche. I am cancelling Tidal, it’s just not good enough for me and neither is Qobuz. Apple Music is better for me (and Spotify perhaps if it sorts out it’s lossy compression). I can’t be bothered with synchronising my favourites and library across platforms either plus I care about quality and Tidal is lacking.
Roon wont be quite as good without a Tidal plan but I can dip in and out of that for a £10er now and again if I miss it.
You are definitely a niche as you pay for all 4 of the streaming services. Most wouldn’t want to pay the premium. But good for you. I often find myself wanting them all too!!
I have to admit, I think you are most probably right. It’s highly unlikely that Apple Music will integrate with Roon or acquire Roon. You are definitely more likely to be right about this. Your argument is sound.
But I do think Apple will improve access to their lossless, spatial and high-res streaming. By improve I mean AirPlay or an AirPlay alternative or another piece of Apple hardware and that this may have a negative impact for Roon.
Roon isn’t helped by Tidal. I am tired of finding tracks in lossless HiFi (or MQA) that just don’t sound anywhere near as good as the exact same master on Apple Music. I lose faith with Tidal more and more.
Interesting. I don’t have Tidal, so can’t say. Do have Qobuz, but to be honest, don’t listen to it much, except to sample new recordings before I buy them. I mainly play my local library
What I have found is that Apple Music has a much better classical catalogue than Qobuz. The only service that I think bests Apple is Idagio–but they specialize in classical.
Interesting. Same for me, but with Tidal. I much prefer to buy what I really like and then have a local library I love to access either with Roon and/or Plexamp. The streaming integration is very nice to have for discovery but I also LOVE Radio Paradise for discovery and as I am increasingly disappointed with Tidal for quality I am ditching it. I just prefer to spend the money on CDs and feel that this supports artists a little more. Especially the ones I like.
I did utilize Primephonic in parallel with ROON before it was acquired by Apple
The Primephonic approach for classical lovers is unique. It is like you get acces to a full enciclopedia of classical music, by period countries authors type of music and after you find the albums with what you look for
Neither Tidal nor Qobuz give such a tool.
If Apple have correctly kept Primephonic approach it will be a big threat to ROON if it is not possible to get Apple classical as a roon service
Will apple retract all classical music from Apple music, or will it be available in both services? Why have two apps? I don’t really get it. I never liked Apple Music (the app) so I don’t speak from experience, but from my pov who likes classical, crossover and popular music, two apps seem counterintuitive.
Probably the catalog is better in IDAGIO but the possibilities of searching were completely different in IDAGIO an Primephonic
It is not about of searching and finding albums it is about of searching for authors works periods type of music and after finding the albums were edited
Having Tidal, Qobuz, Apple Music and Deezer. I would like Roon to integrate Deezer. Been testing the service in the past, and I’ve taken an annual sub with 25% discount. And so far I’m very happy with it.
The maximum they do is 16 bits/44.1 kHz, but to be honest. That’s no problem for me. It plays very well on my Cambridge CXNv2 or my iFi Zen DAC V2.
And Deezer’s app, suggestions and playlists are spot on here.
To be honest, my AirPlay sounds good both via my AppleTV (with an HDMI audio splitter with digital output to my DAC) or even better via my Innuos Zen with USB out to my DAC. However, I agree that AirPlay isn’t ideal. Apple needs a better solution.
Have you tried tethering an iPad (or iPhone) to a DAC? Again, not ideal from a useability standpoint as there is no way to control the playback (play/pause/skip) or music selection remotely. Sounds pretty good though. This is where Roon wins out (just not Apple).
I kind of think I agree, but I haven’t seen the new app yet nor its previous incarnation before Apple acquired Primephonic. Having really struggled to navigate classical music with other music services I imagine it will have something to do with the structure of the library etc. It may make sense when it comes online or could be a half way house solution until Apple find a way to integrate it properly. Ether way I am looking forward to trying it.