Nucleus + Migration Failed

Support
1

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Nucleus +

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Ethernet connection from Netgear router R7800 to Nucleus +

Usb 3 cable connection from Netgear ReadyNAS Pro 4 to Nucleus +

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Squeezebox Duet (Squeezebox is enabled in settings)

Description Of Issue

After updating the Nucleus + firmware, performing a successful restored backup and keeping the same folder location for my local music files used with the original desktop computer core, the following issues were discovered before and after restarting the Roon app on my desktop computer as the controller for now:

1 ) Local music is not being displayed. Only qobuz and Tidal appear in the Overview section.
2 ) Storage settings indicate the local music folder, located on NAS drive, is not available.
3 ) Attempts to browse to the local music folder by editing or adding a folder presents an empty box to select from.
4 ) Squeezebox LMS does not start up when opening the Roon app even though the setup settings indicate Squeezebox is enabled. Thus it is not being detected when using the manage audio devices feature.
5) Changed the name of the desktop roon database folder as instructed. However, not sure where to tell it to save backups in the future.

Any assistance you can provide concerning these issues is sincerely appreciated. Supporting pics to follow:

No%20Local%20Library
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Folder%20Browser
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Squeezebox%20Nonrecognition
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Squeezebox%20Search
Squeezebox%20Search852×449 27.6 KB

Backup%20Storage%20Folder

3

Hello John (@jb76),

Thanks for reaching out and for providing those screenshots. As a note, all blue links below are click-able.

Just to confirm - the NAS was hosting all of the local music, you don’t have any in the Windows PC? From your screenshot it looks like you might have some music on the PC, and Nucleus would only be able to see this music if you share the folder on the network. Do note that this folder is only accessible when the Windows PC is online on the network. If you have music on a NAS, you would have to add it in a similar way.

You will need to specify the network storage location of your NAS or Windows Share manually, please see Add NAS Locations guide and Add Folders By Path guide.

Can you share a screenshot of your Roon Settings -> Audio tab? Have you made sure to go to “Switch Library” on the Duet and select the Nucleus as the Core?

Where do you wish to save your database backups? If you wish to save them on the Windows PC, you will have to share the backup folder over the network. You can also get a USB drive and attach it directly to the Nucleus and perform backups that way.

4

Appreciate your feedback noris. At work currently, so I cannot access my computer or the Nucleus. However, I did discovered I may have a bad ethernet cable which may resolve some or all of the issues.

The Netgear router showed a steady amber/orange light on the port the Nucleus was plugged in to. Their troubleshooting site suggests it may be due to a bad cable or that the Nucleus only works at speeds of 100 or 10 MB in a GB port. Thinking it may be due to the former rather than the latter. So I will try a new cable when I get back to the house and report back on the situation then.

In the meantime, I am concerned that I may not understand how the Nucleus works based on your comments concerning issue #5. Following the merger instructions roon provided, I attempted to perform a new backup of my database on a usb drive to restore it on the nucleus. However, the process was taking way too long and would have consumed more space than I had available on the small drive. So I used a spare external hard drive instead thinking it would only be needed temporarily. Thus, after performing a successful backup to the Nucleus, I unplugged the hard drive thinking the database had been saved on the Nucleus. After reading your comment I am beginning to think that I need to purchase a larger usb drive with better speed that will remain attached to the Nucleus permanently till I decide to install a hard drive internally. Is this the case? And if so, will I need to perform another backup restoration from it and what steps should I take to go about it?

Again, your assistance is appreciated. As you may surmise from my predicament, I am not computer savy and was willing to pay for what I read was a simpler, “plug & play,” piece of equipment. Hopefully, when all my issues are resolved I can agree it was simpler than I made it out to be. Thanks.:flushed:

5

If anyone in the know could confirm whether or not the database backup needs to remain plugged in to the Nucleus, it would be appreciated. Will need to purchase a usb drive on my way home tonight to if this is the case. Thanks.

6

Plugged in the new ethernet cable, but it did not change the amber/orange light to white displayed by the other four router ports in use. So I thought maybe I had a bad router port. But I discovered later that simply turning on the Nuclear device fixed the odd light color. Would have been nice if Netgear had listed this fix on their troubleshooting site.

Went ahead and purchased a usb drive thinking maybe the backup database needs to be connected via the Nucleus usb port if I did not install an internal storage device. But before using it I thought I would test my theory by attaching the external hard drive I originally used to restore the database backup to the Nucleus core to see if it would resolve any of the issues I initially stated.

As a result of attaching the hard drive and following noris’ Squeezebox instructions, I am happy to say that I can now hear Qobuz and Tidal albums. However, I am still not seeing my local library.

Attempted to follow the explanations for accessing a network and found some of the jargon hard to understand (ex., “The folder is allowed to be accessed via SMB”). What in the world is “SMB?” It begs the question, why is it even necessary to “specify the network storage location of my NAS” when the Nucleus Migration Guide explicitly states the following:

"NAS Storage

If your previous storage location was being accessed over the network, no changes should be required."

For the record, my original core storage location did not change when I switched to the Nucleus core. All of my watched music has been located in one folder on my NAS and nothing on my PC. So please explain why a change is required.

Could it be that I purchased the wrong usb cable? Please advise if that is the case.

Scan_2008
Scan_20082531×2605 876 KB

So to summarize, through trial and error and the Squeezbox instruction that was useful, we have resolved issues 3 through 5. That is still assuming that the restored database backup must always be attached via the usb port if I do not install an internal drive to the Nucleus?

If that is the case, is it okay to copy the RoonBackup folder from the external hard drive to a usb flash drive, replace it in the Nucleus usb port and it be recognized the same as if the external drive were attached? If not, how do I go about accomplishing the goal of using a usb drive instead of the external hard drive currently attached?

As always, your continued feedback and support is sincerely appreciated.

7

Since it is taking a long time to receive a response to my feedback and inquiries, I attempted to comprehend the two guides noris referenced for issue #3. Believe I may have figured out why my NAS music folder is not being recognized on the Nucleus. When the roon core was on my desktop pc, I was watching the NAS music folder via the following Windows instructions:

Map a network drive to get to it from Computer or Windows Explorer without having to look for it or type its network address each time.

    1. Open Computer by clicking the Start button and then clicking Computer.
    1. Click Map Network Drive.
    1. In the Drive list, click any available drive letter.
    1. In the Folder box, type the path of the folder or computer, or click Browse to find the folder or computer. To connect every time you log on to your computer, select the Reconnect at logon check box.
    1. Click Finish.

But as noris mentioned, the PC would need to be on in order to access my local music. So I was able to access the network drive directly in windows explorer and copied the address which looked something like this… \[ip address]\media\Music (FLAC) and added a shared network drive via the roon browser using this copied address with user name and password. Roon imediately started scanning the folder and started adding my albums as “New” entries. But I soon discovered that the restored database backup was not recognizing the album tracks I knew I had listened to for the number of times I had listened to it. So I closed the desktop roon controller and shutdown the Nucleus till support can advise me on whether what I did is correct. This trial and error means of getting a plug & play device to work properly is nuts.

8

Hello John (@jb76),

It looks like you have done quite a bit of troubleshooting since we last spoke, let me address some of the points you raised:

How large was the USB drive that you used and how large is your Nucleus Internal Storage drive? When you created a backup of your Roon library how much space did this occupy on the USB drive?

The Nucleus should already have one internal drive that hosts the database, the second drive would be just for music storage or creating backups.

Glad to hear that 3-5 have been resolved.

This is a good step. Adding the network share manually was needed since you were mapping it on your Windows PC. If it had been mounted via SMB (which stands for Samba share) and not mapped, this action wouldn’t have been necessary, but here you have confirmed that adding the NAS share works as expected.

Did Roon by any chance see two copies of your media files at the same time? Please take a look at our Preserve Edits Guide in case this helps:

If you are moving files between locations, drives, or machines, then it is best to avoid letting Roon see 2 copies of the same file at the same time:

  1. Be sure you have a current backup of your database before proceeding
  2. In Roon’s Settings > Storage , disable all old storage folders that contain the files that are being relocated.
  3. For performance reasons, if you are adding a large amount of music (1000’s of tracks), quit Roon (or stop RoonServer on Nucleus). The best experience will come from letting Roon look at the folders when the files have settled.
  4. Move/Copy the files
  5. If you stopped Roon in Step 2, start it again.
  6. In Roon’s Settings > Storage , edit the folders disabled in step 1 and change the folder location and re-enable it.

Can you confirm that you only had one active storage location showing up for the Nucleus? If this is the case - I don’t believe the database backup/restore went through as expected. I would try re-loading the database and instead of keeping the Windows PC listed as the watched location and add the NAS share as new, I would go to Roon Settings -> Storage -> press the 3-dot drop-down menu -> click on Edit -> Browse and specify the NAS share location.

9

Appreciate the feedback noris. Based on it, I am beginning to believe all my long, drawn out explanations are creating more confusion than providing helpful feedback for you and future documentation for members who may have similar issues in the future. And it is unfortunate that there is no phone tech support for this expensive device.

Currently at work again, but on lunch break in an effort to hopefully resolve all of my concerns now since the roon support staff seems to only chime in the same hours that I am at work. So to keep things simple, can we address one issue at a time here:

So are you suggesting, as I initially assumed, that the Nucleus ships with some limited memory already on board, to save the restored database backup from my usb external drive, which I assumed would be connected temporarily for performing this instructed merger task?

11

Thanks for that James. Based on that, can I safely assume that I can disconnect my external usb hard drive from the Nucleus, which only houses the database backup I created from my initial core setup, once it is restored on the Nucleus’ core?

13

My music is stored on a NAS drive which is connected to the Nucleus via a usb male to male cable. This happens to be the same NAS and music folder I was using with my desktop pc via a mapped network.

15

Hi John,

Yes, once you restore the database, you don’t need to have the drive connected to the Nucleus anymore, you can disconnect it unless you also plan to store new backups to that drive.

Since it appears that your database did not restore properly and all the files are listed as new, I believe either the restore didn’t go through as expected or there was an issue when you created the backup to the external drive. Getting the answers to these questions would be useful:

16

The issue was that the restored backup did not recognize my NAS drive on the Nucleus. Based on the merger guide instructions, I assumed that since I was not changing the watched music folder on my NAS drive, the restored backup would automatically recognize it on the Nucleus.

But I am beginning to believe that the reason I do not see it is because the initial core on my desktop was watching a “mapped” NAS network drive instead of watching it directly. Thus I attempted to add a network folder to the Nucleus via its browser by providing it with a copied address location, with user name and password. And in doing so, the roon remote app on my pc began scanning the folder and adding all of my albums as “new” ones from the copied network ip address. Was also not remembering which songs I had already listened to from the restored database on the Nucleus.

So, some 50 albums into the scan, I closed the desktop roon app and shutoff the Nucleus till I could get some clarity on whether I was following the right procedures. Noris indicates I did it correctly, however he has concerns that I may have album duplication as a result of what I did. Did not notice any duplication as the scan was adding the albums,

Upon further reading of the folder guide links noris provided, I am concerned that using an IP address to access my network drive directly may not be the best thing if it is not setup properly. And I am not sure what setup is required to avoid any issues with using an IP address. Noris mentioned something about mounting via SMB. But that is way beyond my pay grade to understand at this point.

18

The external usb hard drive that I used to restore the backup had maybe 100 GB available. When I viewed the properties of the database backup I created on it, it indicated that it cosumed 13GBs.

With respect to the size of my Nucleus Internal Storage drive, I did not install an internal one myself. And I have no way of knowing the memory storage size that shipped with the Nucleus from the factory.

19

I attempted to stop the scanning process last night by xing out the watched drive in the Nucleus browser. But it would not disconnect when I confirmed the request on several occasions. So my only remedy to stop the process was to close the desktop roon app and turn off the Nucleus

21

Hi @jb76,

I would do the following steps:

  1. Connect your USB drive containing the backup to the Nucleus
  2. Restore your backup once more
  3. In Roon Settings → Storage check the path, it should be the same path you were using on your PC (which was mapped and shouldn’t be working)
  4. Go to the 3-dot drop-down menu next to it and click edit
  5. Point Roon to the actual NAS share address and put in your username/password
  6. Let Roon perform the rescan
  7. Verify if your database transferred over properly

When you add your NAS in step #5 you are connecting via SMB. This is a communication protocol used to talk to the NAS.

22

Thanks for the tip James. Will check it out when I get home tonight.

23

Appreciate the steps you provided in order to resolve the ongoing issues I am having and the SMB explanation. Sounds simple enough.

But before I lose you for the day, could you address the other questions that may crop up when I attempt to follow these steps:

  1. When I open the desktop roon controller app on my desktop, I expect that it will continue scanning and adding albums from the network drive where it left off at last night. How do I stop this process before restoring my backup again? As I mentioned previously, I was unable to disconnect the watched drive by xing out the drive in the Nucleus browser.

  2. Where do I go to perform the second restore. Was prompted to restore the backup the first time when I requested to change from the pc core to the Nucleus. Since I would be changing cores on the same device, what steps do I need to take in order to perform the second restore?

  3. Will the first restored backup on the Nucleus internal storage memory that you think was not successful be written over, removed or remain on it when I attempt a second backup restore?

  4. If the second restore is successful, would plugging a usb flash drive into the Nucleus be the preferred means to perform future database backups? And if so, what size is recommended and does the read/write speed matter? And will I need to format the usb drive to FAT32?

Again, I really appreciate everyone’s feedback today. Thanks.

24

Hello John (@jb76),

I would not worry about the ongoing scanning, but if you really want to be extra safe and set the old database aside, you can use these instructions:

  • Stop RoonServer from running in Nucleus’s WebUI
  • Navigate to your Roon’s Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “RoonServer”
  • Rename the “RoonServer” folder to “RoonServer_old”
  • Restart the RoonServer in the WebUI to generate a new Database

Once you have your database in place and everything appears working as expected this folder can be deleted, but only after.

If you are not prompted for another restore, you can manually specify the restore by going to Roon Settings -> Backups -> Find Backups -> Browse...

Backups overwrite the current database with the information contained in the backups (unless you set the old one aside using the above instructions, then you will need to remove the old one manually).

USB drives attached to the Nucleus would be the fastest way to perform backups, so it depends if you wish for them to be performed quickly or if this is not of interest to you, you can also set up a NAS share or perform the backups to your Windows PC (provided the folder is still shared over the network). I would suggest setting the backups to be performed at a time when you are not using the system (such as 2/3AM), as creating the backup snapshot temporarily limits your ability to perform functions in Roon.

We suggest formatting drives as exFAT if it’s a new drive, please see Nucleus Media Storage Guide and ROCK: Storage Basics for more information regarding this. Nucleus and ROCK both run on RoonOS, so they are very similar when discussed in these articles.

Support staff is sometimes online at odd hours, generally speaking during the day is best to contact us, but sometimes we’re around even after “normal” hours :slight_smile:

25

Thanks noris. Will keep you apprised on how how the second restore goes tonight.

26

Back home and about to perform a second restore on the Nucleus. But before doing so, another question arose concerning step #5.

In the future, will I be able to use another roon remote (ex., tablet; phone; etc.), without my desktop computer being turned on, by adding the NAS via an SMB mount?

If not, is there an alternative way to access my NAS music folder without the desktop being turned on and still retain my current database?

Thanks.