Please suggestions to solve time lag on track and album changes

Support
46

@noris

Although I don’t see the issue as one of the ones addressed in build 952, that update seems to have solved the problem.

I’ll post back if (knock on wood…) the problem resumes

1 Like
47

This topic was automatically closed 36 hours after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.

48

Continuing the discussion from Please suggestions to solve time lag on track and album changes:

Roon Core Machine

Mac mini M1 8gb, headless, fully dedicated to Roon. Mac OS Monterrey 12.3.1
Library on HDD connected through Thunderbolt to Mac mini

Networking Gear & Setup Details

Unifi UDM (latest firmware), Google DNS, all end points wired Cat 6a, 1 Tb internet connection

Connected Audio Devices

Matrix Audio Element X (wired); Naim ND5XS (wired, through Sonore bridge); Mu-so Qb (wireless)

Number of Tracks in Library

+/- 150k, 120k local library, 30k Tidal

Description of Issue

When changing tracks or albums when a song is playing, there is gap until the next song starts playing (today Thu 26th May @ 17:41 CET the progress bar swept 15 times left-right before the next song started playing). The length of the gap is time sensitive: 1) the longer the previous song has been playing, the longer the gap. 2) The longer the Roon session, the longer the gap. The issue disappears when restarting Roon, but crawls back and after +/- 2hrs of playing it becomes unbearable.
Gaps happen with local library and Tidal, when using DSP and not. CPU usage during these events is very low and RAM usage is about 6gb out of 8gb, my Mac showing a “green” (low) RAM usage in the activity monitor.
I closed a previous support ticket because when build 952 was launched on May 24th, everything worked smoothly. But now 2 days later is back…
I’m a lifetime subscriber and my first support ticket on this issue was on April 7th

49

@noris the problem is back…maybe something to do with connection to Roon servers?

52

Hi @Ricardo_Damborenea ,

Sorry to hear the issue is back. I’ve activated diagnostics for your Roon Core, can you please use the Roon app on your Mac for at least a few minutes when you have a chance and let me know? I will check for logs afterward, thanks!

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I’m on the road. Will do monday

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@noris

Some data points from today May 30th 2022. It seems the gap issue now only affects Tidal playback, at least today. It affected both Tidal and Local before build 952.

Roon music playing session started at +/- 14:00pm CET. Data below: Time (CET) when song or album was changed//length of time previous song had played before change//gaps as # of times the progress bar moves right-left//wether next song was from Local or Tidal library

  • 14:47 2min 0gap Local
  • 15:01 2min 1gap Local
  • 15:03 2min 0gap Local
  • 15:18 2min 0gap Local
  • 15:38 2min 8gap Tidal
  • 15:43 2min 11gap Tidal
  • 15:45 2min 0gap Local
  • 15:48 3min 0gap Local
  • 16:06 2min 0gap Local
  • 16:08 2min 0gap Local
  • 16:10 2min 13gap Tidal
  • 16:11 30sec 11gap Tidal
  • 16:13 2min 13gap Tidal
  • 16:16 2min 0gap Local
  • 16:23 3min 2gap Local
  • 16:28 2min 2gap Local
  • 16:31 4min 2gap Local
  • 16:42 2min 2gap Local
  • 16:51 2min 2gap Local
  • 16:56 2min 12gap Tidal
  • 16:58 2min 10gap Tidal
  • 17:01 3min 10gap Tidal
  • 17:02 30sec 1gap Tidal
  • 17:03 30sec 12gap Tidal
  • 17:05 2min 12gap Tidal
  • 17:07 2min 0gap Local
  • 17:10 2min 1gap Local
55

@noris

These below are data points from today May 31st 2022.

Session started 14:00CET. DSP is on.

  • 14:53 2min 0gaps Local
  • 15:03 2min 0gaps Local
  • 15:05 2min 7gaps Tidal
  • 15:07 2min 6gaps Tidal
  • 15:13 2min 6gaps Tidal
  • 15:36 2min30sec 12gaps Tidal
  • 16:34 2min 1gap Local
  • 16:47 2min 0 gap Local
  • 16:57 3min 17gap Tidal
  • 16:59 2min 17gap Tidal
  • 17:05 2min 28gap Tidal
  • 17:07 2min 29gap Tidal
  • 17:16 2min 24gap Tidal
  • 17:24 2min 33gap Tidal
  • 17:29 2min 2gap Local
  • 17:36 2min 8gap Local
  • 17:49 2min 1gap Local
  • 17:51 Roon says problems connecting to core. The says song uploading slowly and jumps to next song Local
  • 17:53 2min 1gap Local
  • 17:55 2min 2gap Local
  • 18:09 2min 15gap Tidal
  • 18:16 2min 16gap Tidal
  • 18:23 2min 16gap Tidal
  • 18:31 2min 17gap Tidal
  • 18:54 2min 2gap Local
  • 19:00 2min 0gap Local
  • 19:16 2min 10gap Local
  • 19:19 2min 2gap Local
  • 19:21 2min 14gap Tidal
56

@noris

I’m also getting now and then messages of “an audio file is loading slowly. this might indicate a hardware or software issue”. After that, Roon skips to next song. This is with local files

57

@noris

I’m really trying…quite desperate…this is absolutely useless…it’s not performing at a very basic level: playing music song after song in a playlist (Tidal + Local).

Tied to it as a lifetime user, but planning to move back to audirvana. It works at the basic level, where Roon doesn’t.

I think I deserve some solution…waiting…

1 Like
58

@noris

Audirvana (old version) doesn’t seamlessly integrate own library and Tidal and it’s a s**** to explore music and or metadata. But it works for playing music from my own library and Tidal w/o gaps or hangups.

I have Audirvana 3.5 in my multipurpose use iMac, while my Roon sits on my fully dedicated Mac mini M1 and my local library is in a thunderbolt HDD attached to it. But while Roon is not able -after some play time- to play mixed local library/tidal music play queues w/o huge gaps, Audirvana does so seamlessly, not a single gap!!!. And everything is on the same internet modem, same OS, same router, same network, same endpoints, same music, same switch…why???

Really desperate here

1 Like
59

Hello @Ricardo_Damborenea ,

Thank you for that additional information and for your patience here, I have discussed your case with the team, since this is very strange behavior to see in Roon. We are not seeing widespread reports of similar behavior, we are hoping that you can please clarify the following aspects?

  1. If you try to play to your System Output or HDMI zone on the Mac Mini, do you notice the same behavior occur?
  1. When you switched Roon Cores, have you also migrated the database over? If you temporarily try to set up a fresh Roon database, are you still able to reproduce this issue?
  • Create a Backup of your current database
  • Exit out of Roon
  • Navigate to your Roon Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “Roon”
  • Rename the “Roon” folder to “Roon_old”
  • Reinstall the Roon App from our Downloads Page to generate a new Roon folder
  • Verify if the issue persists on a fresh database before restoring the backup
  1. This is not likely to be too big of a factor here, but have you tried any different DNS services or only Google DNS? You might be in a geographic area with less google servers, so trying Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) may be a good test.
  1. Have you tried to bypass the current (1GB?) internet connection? Do you by any chance have a VPN or a phone hotspot you can try to use to see if the behavior is the same on multiple networks?

We looked over your Roon logs, and we do see the lag on the track time, but unfortunately, that’s all the context that logs provide, it does not show why the lag is occurring.

I am hoping that having answers to the above questions removes some possible variables and helps us pinpoint this issue. Do let me know your thoughts on the above when possible, thank you.

1 Like
60

hi @noris

#1. I’ll try and report but this is difficult for me as the Mac mini is in a different room far away from my music playing devices
#2. When I switched cores I did a fresh database set up, no migration. I will try again.
#3. I also have Cloudfare in my DNS services list
#4. I think this is not the issue. Audirvana (in a different computer) plays perfectly w/o gaps both local and Tidal songs both in its computer and using DLNA in other devices; Naim app plays Tidal perfectly w/o gaps both on my ND5XS and Mu-So; Tidal plays perfectly over Airplay in all devices.

Yes it’s a strange behavior. It used to be both for local and Tidal files and now is just Tidal related.

When I started having the problem my initial thought was that an update on UDM router firmware could have been the culprit. Any thoughts on router set-up?

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Hi @noris

I tried #1 (System Output on the Mac mini) and the problem persists

Did #2 (fresh Roon install) and gaps continue when playing Tidal with same behavior: the longer the session and the longer the previous track has played, the longer the gap. No problem if plating album as queue w/o changing songs (but gaps when changing albums even if in a queue). So #2 is ruled out, I’ll revert to my previous database settings (install from back up)

Moved Cloudfare DNS to top prefered DNS (#3 suggestion) and the problem persists

Tried #4 (VPN) and the problem persists

62

Hi @noris

Anything else I can try? Some advice on router settings (Unifi UDM)?

63

Also tried (#4) connecting to internet through my iPhone and lag behavior with Tidal is the same as with ethernet connection

64

@noris more info/recap on gap behavior:

  • Right now is mostly a Tidal related problem. It used to be Tidal + Local library
  • It happens with DSP on and off
  • It happens on all my endpoints when using Roon
  • It only happens when changing to next song or album when a song is being played
  • If a full Tidal album is left to be played, there is no gap from one song to another
  • If a Tidal queue of songs from different albums is left to be played, usually (not always, but most of the time) there is no gap from one song to another
  • Gaps are time sensitive to both length of Roon session and length of time previous song has played
  • Activity monitor on Mac mini M1 shows RAM “green” usage all the time
  • CPU usage is single digit %
  • If Roon is restarted, the problem disappears but crawls back over time. Usually, after a couple of hours the problem becomes annoying
  • When playing Tidal through Audirvana DLNA or Manufacturer’s apps (Naim & Matrix audio) or using AirPlay from Tidal app, there are no gaps. Just when using Roon
  • Tried all of your suggestions but gaps continue

Still puzzled…

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65

Hi @Ricardo_Damborenea ,

Thank you for that additional information, I have brought this up with the team and have taken a closer look into your logs. We are wondering if your local library hard disk could be the source of the issue.

For the purpose of diagnostics, can you please try to physically disconnect the music storage hard drive from the machine and see if you are able to reproduce the issue using TIDAL only?

Our theory here is that the music drive takes a bit of time to spin up and sometimes when Roon Radio picks content from your hard drive. When the queue ends, Roon Radio can choose music from both TIDAL and the local hard disk, and it is possible that this delay starts when Roon Radio chooses content from the disk.

The Unifi configuration shouldn’t need to be changed. Do let us know if you’re still able to reproduce with TIDAL only, thanks!

66

Hi @noris

I’ll try that. But please note that the gap issue doesn’t happen when a playing queue ends, but when pushing the “play next song” button when playing a Tidal album/queue

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