Qobuz over Roon performing slow

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 16, 2019, 12:50pm

Hello,

I started my try periode with Roon yesterday. I met performance concerns when I stream music from Qobuz. Starting play a track, after 3 or 4 seconds music stops and I have a warning message: “your network debit seems to be insufficient”.
However when I download music directly from Qobuz everything goes very well. When I listen the music directly from my NAS there is no performance issue.

By the way once Qobuz enabled the start to play is very much longer but it could be justified isn’t it ?

My environnement: the core server is installed on my NAS (QNAP TS251-A with 8Go memory, Intel Celeron N3060 1,6Ghz 2 core), Roon database is stored on SSD disc connected to the NAS USB 3.0 slot.

Did you already met the same problem ? Do you think it is simply configuration issues or something more serious ?
Many thanks in advance,
Marek

Martin_Webster · October 16, 2019, 1:03pm

The Celeron is underpowered for Roon Core but this may not be contributing to the issues you describe.

Can you please share more information about you network and the endpoint used for playing music. Are you using wi-fi?

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 16, 2019, 2:41pm

Hello Martin,
I setup another core server on my MacBook pro powered by Intel core i7. The probem remains the same. My endpoint is LUMIN D1conected to Accuphase which works very geantly when I stream the music directly from Qobuz without using Roon. My home network is very common one. I am using wire conection and not a WiFi network. My internet bandwidth in is 15293 Kbps and 953 Kbps out.

Martin_Webster · October 16, 2019, 4:20pm

I’m looping in @support who will be better able to support you. In the meantime it’d be great if you could post a screenshot of your Signal Path when streaming Qobuz content. Thanks.

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 16, 2019, 5:37pm

Many thanks for your help. Please find attached screenshots. I hope it is what you asked for.

List item

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 17, 2019, 12:57pm

Today I’ve done new tests. Unfortunately the problem remains the same.

Qobuz HiRes files still do not pass. I measured with Fast.com the internet bandwidth at the moment the problem occurs between 8 and 9.2Mbps. It seems that this is more than enough. A 96kHz 24bit file needs about 3Mbps!

Please note that I have no problem reading these same files directly from Qobuz without going through Roon.

How to explain that Qobuz alone, it works properly and that Qobuz plus Roon it does not work anymore?
I’m afraid I really need support to solve the problem before the end of my try period.
Thanks in advance.
Marek

ged_hickman1 · October 17, 2019, 2:00pm

Not an explanation but a bit of extra information. As well as streaming the file roon is also contacting multiple other providers for the metadata for the library, sending back play information etc the stream is much heavier than a straight music file…
This multiple contact is one of the reasons that roon needs lightning fast DNS servers.

Martin_Kelly · October 17, 2019, 2:04pm

This is probably the main reason for the hold-up. You would need something faster to run Roon properly.

Martin_Webster · October 17, 2019, 2:56pm

I mentioned this earlier. I used to run Roon on a Turion II Neo which is comparable to the Celeron N3060 and it worked well albeit the UI was a little sluggish and DSP was generally a non-starter.

But, I was only using my local library of 16/44 FLAC not high-res content. This may be a contributing factor but I don’t think this is the root cause.

What I would suggest is to open Roon on the MacBook (hopefully not Catalina) and go to Settings > General and disconnect the Core. Then setup up the MacBook as Core and see how this performs with Qobuz. Ideally, the MacBook should use a an Ethernet connection.

I also think that running Roon from a USB drive may be an issue; ideally Roon should be installed on the system drive (SSD.)

dylan · October 17, 2019, 7:45pm

Hi @MAREK_RZEZNICKI,

Can you describe your current networking setup? What router is in use? What other networking gear is in use?

If you play Qobuz content directly to System Output of the Mac while using it as a Core does this exhibit the same issues?

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 18, 2019, 10:49am

Here is the diagram of my home network. I moved Core on IMac and I still have some cuts while listening from Qobuz in 192Khz 24bit. Now I’ll try to move Roon server on my MacBook Pro to see if it changes anything, it is the most powerful Mac that I have.
I’m not sure if I understood your last question. To listen Qobuz directly I do not go through my Mac. The signal goes directly from the internet box to Lumin via two routers. See the shema. Note that I use this same network for movie streaming in 4k definition and I have no problems.

dylan · October 18, 2019, 11:45am

Hi @MAREK_RZEZNICKI

What are the two routers shown here? 12mbps is a bit on the slower end, especially if there is a lot of network usage here.

Ideally, we want to try to limit network usage as much as possible here and see how things work in a simplified setup. Here’s what I’d like to suggest:

If possible, connect the Mac to the primary router directly via Ethernet. Then go to Settings > Audio in Roon and choose System Output as your Zone. Play to System Output in Roon and let us know if this exhibits the same issue.

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 18, 2019, 12:47pm

I will do it and let you know what will hapen.
Now, 12Mbps is the real internet bandwidth measured with fast.com and not the network debit which is an ethernet gigabit. Knowing that 96kHz 24bit file needs about 3Mbps, my internet debit shuld be enough, is in’t it ? Regarding my network I only turn on LaCie when I need to make backup. It is currently off. Likewise fo TV and movie box. Obviously I don’t watch TV when I listen music. Honestly I don’t think the network is saturated.

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 18, 2019, 1:21pm

I just did the test exactly as requested:

all equipment connected to the network has been switched off,
my Macbook was connected to the 1st router
audio output -> Macbook (model 2018 15-inch 2.6GHz Itel core i7 16GB DDR4)

I dont know the architecture of Roon but I guess it brings extra layers to the Qobuz signal. It would not have a problem with the size of internal buffer ? Hi Res files are much heavier. Qobuz streaming works very well in CD quality so ?

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 18, 2019, 1:26pm

Dylan, I forgot to say the most important, unfortunately it still does not work

ged_hickman1 · October 18, 2019, 2:31pm

Sorry if I missed it in the thread but what is the make and model of your internet router? I ask as there have been issues for some models and ISP supplied routers are often inadequate.

Auralic, who are a sort of equivalent manufacturer to your Lumin, on their support forum often just state you need to swap out ISP routers as a baseline for their support.

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 18, 2019, 3:09pm

My internet router was provides by my ISP which is SFR. SFR is one of main internet provides in France. They have millions of users. The box that I have is a very common one. It works with my Lumin since more then one year without trouble. Thank you for advise. I didn’t know that Auralic has prerequisites like this. When choosing my network player I hesitated between Lumin and Auralic.

dylan · October 21, 2019, 1:00pm

Hi @MAREK_RZEZNICKI,

I think the next step here is to enable some diagnostics on your account so our technical staff can get some more insight into what’s going on here.

However, before I enable this feature, I’d like to ask for your help ensuring we gather the right information.

First, can you please reproduce the issue once more and note the time at which the error occurs. Then respond here with that time, and I’ll make sure we review the diagnostics related to that timestamp.

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 21, 2019, 5:35pm

Hello,

I have done a series of tests between 5h 30 and 18h30 PM local time. At first I thought the problem was solved but unfortunately there’s not the case.

The selected reference traks in the Qobuz library:

Diana Krall - Like someone in love
Louis Armstrong - What a Wonderful Word
Ella Fitzgerald - Have you put Miss Jones

All 3 in HiRes 192/24

1st test: Core Server installed on MacBook, local library on NAS, Roon database on SSD, HP Mac audio output, Macbook connection : Ethernet
No cuts

2nd test: Core Server installed on MacBook, local library on NAS, Roon database on SSD, audio output Lumin, Macbook connection : Ethernet
No cuts

3rd test: Core Server installed on MacBook, local library on NAS, Roon database on SSD, audio output Lumin, Macbook connection : Wifi
Stop reading after 18 to 29 seconds

4th test: Core server and local library both installed on NAS, Roon database on SSD, audio output Lumin,
Stop reading after 18 to 29 seconds

5th test: Core Server installed on MacBook, local library on NAS, Roon database on SSD, audio output Lumin, Macbook connection : Ethernet (same configuration then the second try)
Cuts after 49 seconds.

As conclusion of these additional tests I can say that even in the case of use of the most powerful processor and a 100% wired network the system is unstable. Sometimes the streaming is ok and sometimes I have cuts. See tests 2 and 5 results.

This morning I checked the quality of my internet access with my ISP. No problem from this side.

I also confirm that reading files directly from Qobuz works very well. Would you have a similar problem in your knowledge base?

Best regards,
Marek

MAREK_RZEZNICKI · October 23, 2019, 7:19am

Hi Dylan,
In my prevues mail please read 6h30 and not 18h30. Sorry.
I’ve donne some additional tests yesterday evening. It seems that when Roon server runs on MacBook there is few or not disturbance. I’ll continue to test this configuration but I have to fixe another problem with my NAS. I am really unlucky. When I’ll be convinced of the reliability of my configuration I will install the Roon server on a dedicated Mac mini. Do you know that I can extend the try period for a few more days?