Hi @Art_Set,
as rooExtend (which includes the Roon bridge supplied by Roon) is Bit-Perfect and any DSPs are out the only black box is the ASIO driver from the DACs manufacturer where we don’t know for sure if it is Bit-Perfect or not. Maybe Denafrips can offer a proof on this.
I’m an engineer and spend some time on the Audiosciencereview forum, which I also support. So I’m always skeptical when someone claims that something sounds different in certain configurations. In audio science, the only evidence will be a double-blind ABX test conducted with ABX software and a random selection of inputs. I recommend reading up on ABX and thinking about how to implement it in your setup.
If you carried out such a test with a reliable and documented setup and then get a statistically relevant result, I’ll be back in to find out the reason of sound difference with you.
The problem with human perception is that before the auditory impression is assessed, the brain goes through many stages from the eardrum to recognition. Just knowing from which source you are currently streaming can influence your perception, even if you don’t want to admit it.
That’s exactly what I experienced when I introduced the rooExtend-Box to an experienced hi-fi editor. In his listening session he switched between NAA for HQ Player and Roon Bridge for Roon in the rooExtend setup but forgot to press save. So nothing happened at all!
His conclusion was (and he was absolutely certain) that it sounded better with the NAA setting. In reality he was comparing the Roon Bridge to the Roon Bridge but since he knew what he had chosen it sounded different to him
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Fully agree with you on the specifics of human perception.
But it is also not just 1s and 0s, otherwise it wouldn’t matter what we use and we can get the cheapest DACs and put the saved money towards better speakers and amps.
I do intend to also test with another DAC, which would put at least the theory if this is the Denafrips’ driver doing something or not to the test.
I am not an engineer, but I also subscribe to Asr and I like Amir’s reviews, but I also bought a Toping Dac based on one of these reviews and couldn’t stand it.
If I listen to music 4-5 hours a day on avarege and changing something in the chain makes me stop listening or drastically reduce this average, then maybe something is different. At this point either my brain gets used to it or I change back and life goes on.
Recently I got a Schiit Saga S to be able to change the volume without dsp. This is a transparent passive preamp. In the end I took it out of the chain and am now using the Roon Dsp as it sounds better.
Yes, I saw that, but at the same time people comment that only the Rme adi2 can actually do lossless volume attenuation up to 25db. In reality roon dsp sounds good, the only issue I have is that dsd is converted to pcm,but we already discussed this
There are glasses that are transparent. But we see people that wear brown, pink, blue or yellow glasses. There‘s nothing wrong with it. It‘s not a question of better or worse. It‘s a question of taste.
We can technically proof that a glass is transparent. But we can‘t say that this is the right way on how to look at the world. Anybody should decide which color to use and which fits best to his personal taste and lifestyle.
Same for audio. We can proof that audio gear is transparent by measurements. Some like it but others like colored tube sound. There is nothing wrong with it at all!
For me, the whole thing starts to become problematic when people think they have to convert others and make them believe their pink glasses are the only and BEST way on how to look at the word.
I can measure facts but I can never measure taste so I would therefore never presume that a transparent system has to suit everyone’s taste. Would be great to have this common understanding and stop acting like a missionary.
@art_set please don‘t get me wrong This was a general statement and I did not say you act like a missionary
Absolutely, I am not trying to say something is better or worse.
The fact that I have tubes in the chain makes it kind of obvious that I am listening to coloured sound, which to me sounds more realistic but for someone else may be an anathema.
I am just saying that a piece of tech can measure perfectly and still not sound great in someone’s system due to lack of synergy.
Hi - Thanks for the quick response!
I’ve arranged to return the faulty MS Surface Dial - What do I need to make your software work with a spacemouse instead. I’m a bit frustrated with the bricked Surface Dail
Just buy the Spacemouse Wireless and go.
Take care you get a package with the USB receiver included. Some reported issues buying the receiver and the SpaceMouse as separate devices.
Great system DrCWO!
I thought i’d check in just to let others know it’s worth persevering with. I returned the faulty MS Surface Dial, got a replacement that is now working well on the latest version 3.3.2 of rooExtend.
It was still a somewhat flaky in the pairing process but it worked after 4th time trying! I was half expecting the Dial to brick itself like the first one - but it didn’t.
I was getting a lot of core disconnect messages but changes the wireless from WPA2 to WPA and restarted the Roon server. One of these two changes restored stability.
It’s great and my wife also loves it! The dial sits between us on a coffee table and it’s great to adjust volume and mute as needed.
Thanks for a great system! One question: How much impact does having haptic feedback enabled have on battery life?
Hi @Glen_Wilson2,
great you made it now
Thanks’ for your positive feedback
I have several hundred rooDial users now and general feedback was that connecting with WiFi is not the best solution. In the meantime I recommend a Pi4 with wired Ethernet. Roon itself did not recommend WiFi as the Roon API was not made for that. So receiving messages with transmission errors Roon Core disconnects rooExtend.
It all depends on where you live and how many WiFis are near by. Even worst is that BT uses the same frequency spectrum as WiFi so collisions happen as more WiFi is around. So if you get continuous trouble think about a wired Ethernet connection.
Thanks DrCWO,
Of course you are right, wired is always preferable to wireless. In my situation that’s a bit tricky as then the Pi would be some distance away from the seating area, stretching the limits of bluetooth coverage - always a compromise one way or the other!
I could always for the Pi to 5GHz to avoid contention between BT and Wifi at 2.4GHz but for the last 24 hours no core dicconects, so working well.
Log snip below - does it look healthy or flaky to you?
Also, does haptic feddback drain the battery quickly?
Just watched a review of pi2aes hat and sounds very interesting.
Interested to know if rooextend works with hats as output via roonbridge or I can only use usb?
Looks good so far. The “set Lowspeed” messages should disappear if you take out batteries and reinsert them. This is caused by a bug in the BT driver that I cannot fix.
Best DrCWO
Quick update regarding the state of the new rooMax Roon Extension that interconnects the XenceLabs Quick Keys controller to Roon.
Today my first proof of concept had worked
I can connect to the device plus change volume with the device. Also I can display the volume in real time on its display. I‘m very happy this works now. Very stable and I also tested with a distance of 10m without any issue
Hope I can finish a first release till end of May.
This was a general statement and I did not say you act like a missionary 
