Roon ARC - iOS cellular connection to Core fails ("poor connection - retry") + Core crashes

Hi @benjamin

Thanks for coming back to me. I’ll leave things as they are for now with my set up, and keep LAST.FM off for now, just in case that’s leading to overall stability for me. Last.fm is less important to me, if all playback is captured via ARC, anyway.

A continued weak signal at that point in time would have been potentially likely, as we were traveling at the time. Thanks for passing this on, and the information about memory pressure, too - I’ll report back to this thread, should I encounter further interruptions.

I would like to utilise the download feature over time, as an insurance policy against poor cellular coverage, but I’m reluctant to go too far down that road, if resetting ARC may prove necessary from time to time, as I assume I would need to re-download those again, following a reset.

Thanks,

Greg

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I’m having the exact same symptoms - Arc will play a few tracks and then stop / I get the poor connection message on the iPhone (14 Pro Max) and the core then hangs and needs an app restart exactly as you describe.

It happens when arc is connected via Wifi at home or when on 4G/5G.

Interesting part is that we also have set up similarities! I’m on Three 5G internet, connect to an iMac running Monterrey. I can’s see how the Three internet can be the culprit given it happens on wifi or mobile data, but you never know.

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Hey @Greg_Ince,

This sounds like a good plan for now, as we continue to investigate. Definitely link back with some additional timestamps/name of the tracks playing when the connection fails. Also, let me know if the issue occurs while Arc is in the background, or if it’s when you are interacting with the app in the foreground :+1:

I completely understand this! A potential workaround (for now) could be to create a playlist specifically for your ‘Arc Downloads’ and save the tracks to the playlist as well as download them to Arc. Then, if you have to reset Arc, you’ll be able to download that playlist for a quicker restore process. Not ideal, but could work for the time being :slightly_smiling_face:

@Kevin_O_Brien were you also using Last.fm?

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Yes, I’ve got Last.FM scrobbling turned on.

Before I moved my core, and before I switched to Three 5G internet I did not have these issues and I had Last.fm enabled there.

hi @Kevin_O_Brien , @benjamin.

There are a lot of similarities / parallels in hardware, aren’t there. A couple of things to add:-

THREE 5G Router, firmware and home networking

My Three Router is set up with ‘IP Passthrough’, and the internet connection is relayed via ethernet into my Google MESH network - we wouldn’t be able to cover our home without that. Thus, the Three 5g Router is in bridge mode, and negates double NAT. I think! The 2.4 and 5 wifi networking of the the Three 5g Router are turned off.

ARC is listening on port 55002 - this was automatically selected, and I’ve left well alone! No devices connect to the Three 5G Router directly, here, wired or otherwise, except for the Google Wifi Mesh itself. All devices then connect to that, wired, or wirelessly.

Kevin - I turn WIFI off completely on my iMac. It can ONLY access the network via Ethernet, connected directly to the MESH.

The Three 5G router itself is on the following firmware version (I think this has updated in the last couple of hours, actually, as the router appears to have restarted today): V1.00(ACBJ.0)b12. It’s the same model as Kevin’s.

On the topic of UPnP - the mesh network has this turned on, and I think it’s the MESH that handles this? I’m not using the Three Router to do this. The option is off, and I’ve done nothing manually to set up port forwarding in either the MESH network, or the Three 5G Router.

Poor connection issues

There was a point when I first posted in this thread where ARC seemed to be failing all the time in the way I described, and in the manner that Kevin seems to be experiencing at present, too. Now, it seems a rarer event that the Core locks up. Something changed, but it felt like it may have been outside of my control or not a direct result of anything I did, at least nothing obvious (i.e. I assumed it was either on the Three network or at Roon’s end).

I chimed in again, above, to highlight when a poor connection event resulted in the Core locking up, again. The subsequent event I referred to after that, which lead me reset ARC, didn’t require a restart of my Core.

ARC Settings and experience in the last couple of weeks

We’ve already touched on the fact that I’ve been leaving last.fm off.

Additionally, as a result of a recent mobile contract change to an unlimited plan at the end of October (to support use of ARC), I’m opting to use ‘Original Format’ whether I’m on Cellular or Wifi. I had wondered whether transcoding for ARC might add additional processing strain on the machine I run the core on, despite the robust iMac spec I happen to have. Thought I would mention that last point, in case it’s worth noting, too. I wanted clear the path from the Core to ARC as much as I could.

Finally, ARC continues to be working here. By that, I mean that while I encounter a poor connection message here and there, generally I am usually able to overcome these whilst on the move (ARC seems to behave at work, in the car and even on the train as a general rule), and I’m able to make a connection fairly readily when the issue does occur. I consider this progress from where I started! :slight_smile:

PS @benjamin - good tip on the playlist for downloads, I’ll consider that as an option. thanks.

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Just chiming in again - things have been stable and resilient since my last post. I’m still not scrobbling, for fear of knocking things over!

I was getting to the stage where I was almost willing to experiment with scrobbling again, but before I got the chance to this week, I encountered a weird / unexpected outage of access to my core via ARC this morning (both via cellular and my work wifi network). A surprise after

ARC advised me of poor connection a couple of times, and the familiar loop began, and then ARC advised me that my core could not be accessed outside of my network, and even indicated that it may have even become inaccessible for a time with a Red Cross icon. A connection could not seem to be established, even after resetting ARC.

This outage would have been between 10:00 and 11:00 this morning, UK Time. At some point, the issue remedied, as I tried again after 11:00 and all was well once more.

Any ideas, @benjamin do the logs point to anything?

I’m wondering if this was the return of the same problem that I’ve experiences in the past?

My wife checked the core and the ARC settings around 11:00 but everything was up and running, and the core had not crashed.

Hey @Greg_Ince,

Glad to hear things have been stable! After reviewing your account, I’m seeing a handful of network errors, as well as low-memory errors from your device. This specific instance could very well be a culprit of memory pressure on the phone, are you able to take a look at both your general device storage, as well as the available storage from your Arc settings?

How large is your local library in Arc?

OK. Interesting. Thanks @benjamin.

There did seem to be network issues preventing me from making a connection at that point - it seems a little different from what I had been experiencing previously.

My on-device ARC library only had one album on it in CD Lossless - not significant. This was removed when I reset ARC while trying to connect.

My phone is a 256gb iPhone 12 mini and has ~200gb space.

What’s interesting to me is that’s the second incidence of visible markers of memory pressure being in the mix when it comes to issues with ARC on my phone.

The machine my core is running on is a bit full, and I’m currently in the process of freeing up space to avoid any performance issues (I try and keep at least 10% of the drive free, but it’s crept over that mark).

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Hey @Greg_Ince,

That would make sense, do you store your library, as well as your backups all on your iMac core?

Hi @benjamin - yes, the core, the files it references and my Roon back ups are all stored on my core.

I’ve since completed my hard drive ‘renovations’ on my iMac, so there ought to now be more headroom / storage on the iMac the core runs on.

Time Machine backups of the iMac itself are made on a separate drive.

Greg

Got it @Greg_Ince thank you for the update! Let me know how things run and if you continue to experience poor connection issues :+1:

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I have this exact same issue… and for the record I use last.fm. So I see a pattern there…

Interesting @Bruno_Mello. I’ve never re-added last.fm scrobbling for fear of compounding this now occasional issue. Have you had a better experience without it?

@benjamin

I actually had the first one of these instances for a while - had to restart the core to resolve Arc connection which was reporting poor connection.

I can’t confirm the UI was hanging, at the same time, as I was out and about, but I do know that Roon was working at home prior to this event - my wife restarted the core for me to remedy the problem at 9:42/9:43 UK time this morning.

Once this was done, connection was possible once again.

I’ve tended to wait / try again and event reset Arc when I encounter this issue which usually resolves matters. This time I went for the restart of the core.

Anything in the logs this time around?

Greg

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Hey @Greg_Ince,

Thanks for providing the above information! Oddly enough, when reviewing the log set at the specific time, I’m seeing some errors around Time Machine potentially attempting to perform a backup. We have a known history of issues with Time Machine and Roon.

If you haven’t yet, I would test out disabling Time Machine completely on the core device and see if you continue to experience poor connection errors.

Thanks, @benjamin

Interesting - I had picked up that Time Machine can create a negative interaction. I guess this could be an issue if I was trying to play an audio file at the same as Time Machine is in the process of backing it up?

Due to this, I have already excluded the Roon database, itself, from being backed up by Time Machine - that way, Time Machine and the database itself don’t interact. The thinking is, that, Time Machine is backing up my Roon Database back up, only (if that makes sense) - I’ve assumed I would restore Roon from Roon’s own back up in the event of needing to do so.

For now, I’ve moved my Time Machine schedule from hourly to daily, to reduce the likelihood of interactions between Time Machine and Roon’s usage of files. It probably follows that I may be playing in Roon / Arc tracks that I’ve just ripped from a CD, and that these files could also, simultaneously, feature as target files for an hourly Time Machine back up.

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Same here. I will try turning off last.fm scrobbling when I start using Roon ARC again.

Maybe this deserves some extra investigation by the Roon team? The Last.fm scrobbling is pretty unreliable, with double or triple scrobbles occuring when you pause and resume tracks, and no scrobbles occuring when your connection becomes unavailable. It seems like there’s no caching.

Another core restart this pm @benjamin to reconnect ARC.

Something went wrong > poor connection retry > core unreachable

Restart around 17:10 appears to have fixed ARC access. Not sure when ARC fell over, I’m afraid.

I would really love to be able to restart the core remotely, instead of getting my wife to do it! :wink:

Anything in the logs this time round?

Greg

Hey @Greg_Ince,

I’m still seeing a handful of 400 and 200 errors around the time of the issue, which vaguely points to network hiccups.

Do you get an Apple crash report when Roon goes down? If so, it would be helpful to get a copy of it. Feel free to upload it it here if so.

Beyond this, do you by chance have another device you could test as a temporary core?

Hi @benjamin

OK - possibly network issues. Thanks for checking.

Sadly, no crash report is produced when this happens, it’s like the Roon Core App hasn’t quite crashed from MacOS POV?

I have another laptop (MacBook Pro) which I could use as a temporary core - what would you suggest I did, and how would I do it! :slight_smile:

Thanks,

Greg

EDIT: I’ve actually found a crash report in CONSOLE, but it’s from a different day. I’ll upload it, in case it’s illuminating in some way.

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