Hi @Vexari ,
Thanks for the updates and sorry to hear that the situation has worsened. Have you been able to retrieve the logging with the additional debug modes enabled when the hang occurs?
Was this same Thunderbolt Hub used between both Cores you had before? If you temporarily disconnect the Hub and just have TIDAL/Qobuz and music on the Core’s primary drive connected, do you still experience the hangs?
I’ve just uploaded the logging with additional debug modes enabled.
I started Roon (with debug modes enabled) yesterday (02.06.2023 at 22:30 my time)
I checked this morning (03.06.2023 at 7:42 my time) Roon was unresponsive with spinning beach ball. I make the supposition that the unresponsiveness happens when I bring Roon to the front, but maybe it happens before.
I noticed there were other older logs in the log folder, from yesterday to may 18th. Are you interested that I send them to you as well?
This actual thunderbolt Hub is new (since january). Before january I didn’t have a thunderbolt hub at all but still had the issue.
I believe I had one Core before (not two) this one (on a iMac27 mid-2011), I replaced it with the Mac Mini M1.
Thanks for sending those @Vexari , I’ve forwarded to QA + the devs for review, hopefully, the log contains useful clues. We will let you know if we need more logs.
a small update regarding the new problem that seems to have arisen with build 1272 mentioned here
After a day or two, Roon Core becomes unavailable to other Roon remotes on the LAN and also to Roon ARC. The Roon Core is still functional for playing music.
Then in Settings / Roon ARC, I get the following error message (If I restart Roon, the error message is gone):
{
“ipv4_connectivity”: {“status”:“NetworkError”,“status_code”:504,“error”:“error: Error: ETIMEDOUT, response code: undefined, body: undefined connected? undefined”},
“external_ip”: {“actual_external_ip”:“81.aaa.bbb.ccc”,“actual_external_ipv6”:“null”,“router_external_ip”:“null”},
“natpmp_autoconfig”: {“status”:“NotFound”},
“upnp_autoconfig”: {“server_ip”:“192.168.1.1”,“found_upnp”:true,“error”:“<s:Envelope xmlns:s="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/\” s:encodingStyle="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/\“><s:Body><s:Fault>s:ClientUPnPError<UPnPError xmlns="urn:schemas-upnp-org:control-1-0">718ConflictInMappingEntry</s:Fault></s:Body></s:Envelope>”}
}
Hi @Vexari,
The team will be reviewing diagnostics and should provide the next troubleshooting steps shortly. In the meantime, as a more heavy-handed workaround, we suggest installing RoonServer instead of the all-in-one Core software on your Mac. First, create a reliable backup of your Roon database. Next, fully uninstall Roon from your Core.
You’ll then reinstall RoonServer using this downloader: https://download.roonlabs.net/builds/RoonServer.dmg
Note that you’ll need to rely on other Remotes to control Roon, since you’re cleaving out the visual/UI component of the software on the Core device. However, it should isolate the problem until we’ve reviewed it further. Thank you for your patience!
Hi @connor,
Thank you for your suggestion.
If I install RoonServer on my mac, can I, once the server is running, (re)install Roon on the same mac, to use it as a remote for the server on the same mac?
This way I could quit the Roon app when I’m finished with the UI and leave the server running.
Hey @Vexari ,
Yes, you can use both Server + Remote on the same Mac. Do keep in mind that the RoonServer install will be installed fresh, so if you wish to have the same database you would need to connect to it and restore a backup from the All-in-one install to the RoonServer install.
Hi @noris,
I installed Roon Server on my Mac Mini M1 a couple days ago (like recommended by @connor here)
The server is working fine, I’ve been able to restore from my Roon All-in-one database backup.
But,
now after a day or two the server stops working for Roon ARC devices – it is still working fine for Roon remote use.
If I restart Roon Server, Roon ARC works fine again.
here the error message I get from Settings/Roon ARC :
{
"ipv4_connectivity": {"status":"NetworkError","status_code":504,"error":"error: Error: ETIMEDOUT, response code: undefined, body: undefined connected? undefined"},
"external_ip": {"actual_external_ip":"81.aaa.bbb.ccc","actual_external_ipv6":"null","router_external_ip":"null"},
"natpmp_autoconfig": {"status":"NotFound"},
"upnp_autoconfig": {"server_ip":"192.168.1.1","found_upnp":true,"error":"<s:Envelope xmlns:s=\"http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/\" s:encodingStyle=\"http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/encoding/\"><s:Body><s:Fault><faultcode>s:Client</faultcode><faultstring>UPnPError</faultstring><detail><UPnPError xmlns=\"urn:schemas-upnp-org:control-1-0\"><errorCode>718</errorCode><errorDescription>ConflictInMappingEntry</errorDescription></UPnPError></detail></s:Fault></s:Body></s:Envelope>"}
}
Here is an update.
I rebooted my Mac Mini and noticed that the server ran fine for a while, but eventually, after a few days to a week, the Server becomes unreachable for both the Roon ARC devices and the LAN Roon remotes.
After a restart of the Roon server everything is fine again.
In conclusion, unfortunately, I still seem to have the same problems as with my previous Roon All-in-One installation.
Again,
unable to connect this morning to Roon Core with Remotes.
But I’m still able to connect to the Core with Roon Arc.
I restarted Roon Server and now Remotes are back to working.
Hi @Vexari,
We’ve taken a look through logs sent to our servers from your Core and Remotes around the timestamp of your recent post.
Some (relatively) good news: there are strong indications that you may be encountering a known mechanism for slow performance related to database architecture, which is an issue we’ll be dedicating significant time to improving in the near future. More simply, your local library files and folders might be organized in such a way that it’s stretching Roon’s capabilities.
TEST: If you navigate to Roon → My Library → Artists and Sort by Album Count, then you use Command + A to select all of your artists. Try exporting to an Excel file by clicking on the three dots next to Play Now at the top of the window and clicking Export.
We’re curious if you have several artists with a high album count - in your correlating file structure, I’m assuming you would have an Artist folder with a large volume of Album folders contained within. Too many situations like this in a local library are currently throttling performance in Roon. It’s an issue we’re investigating with development currently to address.
Any information you can share with us about the results of the above test will be helpful! Thank you again for your ongoing patience here.
I had a look at “my artist” album count, and can see that in Roon database I have one artist with 78 albums, about 6 with ~30 albums, 7 with ~20 albums, and so on.
Looking at the correlating file structure, it is not all the same.
For the 78 albums artist, those are spread within “series” folders with a subfolder for each album. Since this artist comes from a specific storage folder, I temporarily disabled this one in Roon settings to see if things get a little better.
When I moved to Roon, I kept my previous iTunes media folder as it was, which by default is structured by artist/album.
After moving to Roon, my newly acquired music is all in a specific folder named using [Artist] – [Album] [(year)]. no subfolders.
Quick follow-up note.
I tried to “simplify” the file structure of the “my artist” with the most album count in my inherited media folder from my previous iTunes media folder, following @connor recommendations.
It seems to take longer for my Roon server to become unreachable.
However, it is difficult to say for sure as I have had to reboot my Mac several times in the last month for various reasons.
I spoke a little too soon.
Today, Roon remote on my mac and iPhone were not able connect to the Core.
On the other hand, Roon Arc was still working fine.
Restarting the Server fixed the problem.
Hi @Vexari,
Thank you again for your demonstration of patience while we’ve synced on this issue internally. We’ve reviewed the diagnostics available since your latest post and have several updates:
Good news first: since reorganizing your file directory, we have no indication in logs of the original mechanism for performance decline. Roon is no longer choking up on analysis due to large counts of objects in subdirectories.
We do see evidence in logs that there might be multiple subnets active on your LAN. The fact that a Server restart allows your Mac to rediscover the Core might corroborate that suspicion - rebooting the server prompted the machine to reconnect to the correct subnet.
Are you able to describe how you currently have your computers connected on this network? For instance, does your setup resemble the following?
RoonServer <—ethernet—> switch <—ethernet—> router ← - - wifi - - - → Mac Remote
Hi @connor,
Regarding your point 2.
I’m using ZeroTier on the Mac Mini M1 where RoonServer is located (to be able to access files on this mac from my work iMac)
I don’t know if this might have something to do with the multiple subnets you’re seeng in the logs?
Sometime I activate the Wi-Fi on this Mac Mini M1 (to be able to use AirDrop), and forget to disable it. Could this be another source of multiple subnets in the logs?
I mainly use RoonRemote on the same Mac Mini M1 where my RoonServer is running. As suggester by yourself here.
The Screen capture showing RoonRemote no longer able to connect to the RooServer was on the same Mac Mini M1.
So for this Mac the setup would look like:
RoonServer & RoonRemote <—ethernet—> switch <—ethernet—> router
I also sometimes use my iPhone as a remote to my RoonServer
RoonServer <—ethernet—> switch <—ethernet—> router ← - - Wi-Fi - - → iPhone
The same iPhone when outside the LAN uses RoonARC to connect to the Roon Server
There is an other person in my home/LAN which connects to the RoonServer with its own profile.
RoonServer <—ethernet—> switch <—ethernet—> router ← - - Wi-Fi - - → Macbook
Sometimes I also use RoonRemote on my iMac at work to connect to the RoonServer on the Mac Mini M1 at home using ZeroTier (which works fine).
RoonServer <—ZeroTier—> internet <—ZeroTier—> work iMac
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