Roon Community Conduct

Roon Community Site
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You know, there are facts, and there are opinions. I certainly agree about being polite when you have a different opinion. Chacun à son goût!

But facts are only one-way. You can’t have “different” facts, no matter how many times you have heard them or how much you believe them. They will always be nonsense. And education consists of pointing that out. And not being tired of pointing it out, over and over again. Ask any primary-school teacher. But it’s a public service.

Sure, I get embarrassed when someone points out I’m talking nonsense. And that sometimes annoys me. But I try to suck it up. And I try to point out errors in other people’s preaching.

@Archimago used a quote from Thomas Paine on Saturday:

It is the duty of every man, as far as his ability extends, to detect and expose delusion and error. But nature has not given to everyone a talent for the purpose; and among those to whom such a talent is given, there is often a want of disposition or of courage to do it.

This is from Paine’s Essay on Dream, and in it he goes on to explain why this is important:

The prejudice of unfounded belief, often degenerates into the prejudice of custom, and becomes at last rank hypocrisy.

Sound like any audiophile mythologies we’ve ever heard of?

Paine continues:

When men, from custom or fashion or any worldly motive, profess or pretend to believe what they do not believe, nor can give any reason for believing, they unship the helm of their morality, and being no longer honest to their own minds they feel no moral difficulty in being unjust to others. It is from the influence of this vice, hypocrisy, that we see so many church-and-meeting-going professors and pretenders to religion so full of trick and deceit in their dealings, and so loose in the performance of their engagements that they are not to be trusted further than the laws of the country will bind them. Morality has no hold on their minds, no restraint on their actions.

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24

I tend to agree with the sentiments here. There’s too much “I’m right and you’re wrong” with some topics which completely shuts down healthy debate on the topic. However there’s one topic area that seems to avoid such polarisation of opinions and that is the Music section and in particular the “What Are We Listening To” section. There’s such a diverse range of music tastes and opinions that runs through this section which seems to include all music genres, artists and recording standards and yet no poster ever seems to criticise another posters opinions on the type of music they are listening to. It’s such a pleasure to visit this section which I do most days. It would be wonderful if topic posters were as accommodating and generous with their opinions and views in other sections of the forums.

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TBH that thread with all the hostility has had me seriously reconsidering the small steps I have taken in participating in an online community (assuming I am thinking about the same one) of any sort. I had thought roon community was a supportive and friendly place. I am not so sure anymore. May not be a place for me. That is everything I hate about the internet.

Agree about the what are we listening to and a few others like it are the highlight for me.

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26

I think sometimes we can be too comfortable bashing on a keyboard and get caught up in our own personal thought processes and have foot in mouth moments.

Sometimes people are correct in what they do actually state. It’s just the way we go about it we all need to reflect on.

Don’t go, stay. A little piece of advice I’ve taken from others is to be choosy of which threads to get involved with and follow like minded souls through our musical journeys.

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Andrew these threads also annoy me because they always go into the same direction and the same Small crowd participate and eventually it gets rate limited and then closed (rinse and repeat)

There are plenty of people needing help and there are plenty of thread’s that have none of this sh1t3 in them that we can enjoy.
Like you I really enjoy the listening threads and as Depeche Mode said many years ago People are People

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The main guidance I give regarding Community Conduct is very simple. Don’t talk about other people.

For example, if someone says something that you know to be flagrantly wrong there are other ways of approaching the topic than to say ‘You are wrong’ or ‘You lack the education or experience to know that you are wrong’.

Try some of these approaches instead:
‘My understanding as a Ph.D and Nobel laureate is …’
‘I haven’t listened to the Quantum Supertunneling Nanocables but if they worked in the way the manufacturer suggests then wouldn’t we have rocket cars by now,’
‘My experience with the ‘Whack-a-Doodle 2000’ is that input A needs to be connected before output B works at all’.

I would make an exception for devices that break the second law of thermodynamics. You can just tell people they’re wrong then.

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While you can’t really fool people with a perpetuum mobile, I’m not so sure about quantum tunneling, so I’d tell them they’re wrong in that case too.

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4 posts were split to a new topic: The Laws of Thermodynamics

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Certain people on this forum rely on the basis of ‘science’ to justify their stance, and undermine alternative views.

Folks, music is an art-form and not a science. And just because a component doesn’t ‘measure’ too well, doesn’t mean that it sounds awful.

Take my Linn LP12. Even in its current (modern) form it might not ‘measure’ too well compared to a new Technics SL-1200. But my Linn sounds great :smiley:

I think we need to respect opposing views on this forum, and stop trying to ‘trump’ other views using science as a basis. It ‘ain’t that simple’.

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33

True that,

Music is in the ears of the beholder.

–MD

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34

We seem to agree while some musicologists may oppose, though.

That said, reproduction of recorded musical performances is a technical process, based on prior scientific accomplishments, which should audibly preserve as much of the “original signal” without additionally mangling it by added byproducts, even if euphonic.

If needed, better add those via DSP as needed per mood/gerne/recording/whatever…

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1

Almost 100% true for live music (without some science the piano player would not have the piano)

2

Would be 100% true if we would have the perfect tools for recording and playback

3

Listening to music it is a personal experience

1+2+3= what we love and are addicted to. It is a jungle, we get carried away as we all want to have a little bit of truth, we sacrifice time for knowledge, money for gear, we get passionate… and so on.

But still we do not need to hurt others

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36

Fine example of an OPINION.

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You’re quoting me, so it seems you’re accusing me of hurting others!?
On what ground?
I feel hurt by you!
:exploding_head:
:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

We also don’t have the “perfect tools” for reproduction either and adding an even less perfect device doesn’t undo but may cover up at best, still adding more imperfections.
So what makes your statement true, then?

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So, let’s hear your fact, then.

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Thank you for sharing your opinion.

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No, no way I was making the connections between the quote and hurting. The quote was referring to the fact that reproduction and recording are a technical process.

I’m not sure what are you referring to. I was referring to the fact that while 10 people are playing someone has to record them, has to make decisions about how to do it, so it is not 100% a technical process. More of a creative one. Then comes playback and while I do not want to add imperfections others maybe want that. Not everybody has to agree with us in chasing away the imperfections. There might be some that goes further, and wants random imperfections just as a flavour. From my point of view they might be wrong but they are enjoying the music so from their point of view they are right. I think only the one who played the piano and the listener heard a violin can get frustrated.

Music, while many things, it is also a method of communication. I think all our methods of communicating are imperfect. For example me “hurting you” :slight_smile:

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:thinking::pensive:

Please!!!

My intentions of this thread wasn’t to bring the bickering with it. Just to highlight how we may want to conduct ourselves.

Thanks

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42

It often doesn’t matter how well music is recorded, how well the band was playing, how good the replay system, how it’s meant to sound, give someone DSP and they generally have the ability to mess it up to taste.

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All very true!

People do seem to like the sound of those tube amps, for instance.

A lot of this discussion hinges on the actual meaning of terms like “high fidelity” and SQ. “High fidelity” – well the use of “fidelity” would seem to insist on fidelity to the sound of the original performance; this goes back to the records of the 1950’s where they tried to “bring the listener in” to a symphony hall. SQ – I really don’t know what different people mean by that.

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