Roon Core is Loading Very Slowly

[Lon_Baugh]

Ben,

Thank you for your follow-up suggestions.

I completed the second of your two items above (i.e., database backup - which I do fairly regularly in any event - and had the app generate a new RAATServer folder.)

In so far as the first item is concerned, as I mentioned before I do not stream to any endpoints; the two endpoints I have (the one I previously described in detail for my main two channel system) and my family room casual player (a Blusound Pulse 2) are both connected via ethernet CAT-6a. So, unless I’m still misunderstanding what you’re saying, this is an irrelevant item. So, I hope to listen to the system in coming days and see an improvement by perhaps having created the fresh RAATServer folder (this is out of my area of competence, so I haven’t the foggiest of how that new folder may help; and please recall that at Noris’ previous suggestion, I had already created a new “Roon” folder which wiped out all of my history - don’t want to really do that again if at all possible (as I lost the correct/original “add” dates and I used those periodically…)…

I utilize no DSP settings in Roon; so, didn’t have any issues there with this refreshing…

Now that I have both the fresh Roon and RAATServer folders, can I get rid of those marked with the “_Old”? (I wish to keep this music server as cleaned up as possible and don’t want superfluous folders).

Let’s see how it goes…
Thanks again and regards,
Lon

Postscript:
08162022 listening session last night was encouraging; playback was flawless and I’m going to focus next on app loading issues…

It seems that the corrupted RAATServer files was at least part of what I’ve been experiencing - perhaps corrupted via all of the frequent new builds following the ill-fated introduction of v 1.8?

I’ll edit this post further with applicable updates…

Postscript 2:
08172022 listening session last night was flawless, except the Roon Controller app on my iPad froze two times over the course of around 90 minutes; playback audio was flawless and not interrupted with these app freeze-ups.

Also, the Roon Core is still slow to launch and open (was instantaneous with v. 1.7 and has been slow in all iterations of v. 1.8)…It loads over the course of approximately 30 seconds and thereafter stable.

I’m now satisfied with the playback, but would still like to understand why the Core is so slow when opening, if there is a way for you to figure that out from the logs I’ve already sent you…

Thanks and regards,
Lon

[benjamin]

Hey @Lon_Baugh,

Thank you for the detailed update. We can certainly take a look at what might be going on in regards to the slow start-up.

We’ll need a fresh set of logs, please send over a fresh set of logs to our File Uploader. Thanks, Lon!

[Lon_Baugh]

Ben,

I just uploaded the logs after just now opening the Roon Core fresh (experiencing the typical delays in its launching). I hope you’ll find the logs helpful.

Also, I’d like to again ask you - is there any reason to keep the “_Old” Roon and RAATServer folders that represented the back-ups before creation of the current folders now in use? (I had created the old back-up Roon folder at Noris’ request and most recently the old back-up RAATServer folder at your request. If I don’t need them for any reason, I’d like to get rid of them. Please advise.

Thank you and kind regards,
Lon

[benjamin]

Hey @Lon_Baugh,

Thanks for sending those over. After review, we’re not seeing any specific errors pointing to your lag in launching. How long does it take roon to launch for you? If possible, can you please share a screenshot of your storage settings/folders?

We’d also like you to refresh your analytics database to see if that may help with things. Follow the steps below to do so:

• Shut down Roon or RoonServer
• Go to the Database/Orbit folder
• Delete the orbit_v3.db folder
• Start up Roon or RoonServer

I’ll be on standby for your reply

[Lon_Baugh]

I’ll try to spend some time with this tonight…
I deleted the orbit_v3.db folder and then reopened Roon Core to let that re-propogate. Then, when I opened Roon Core again following that re-propogation, it took about six seconds for the launch to complete (better than the 20-25 seconds that has become routine, but slower than it ever was with v. 1.7 - is the six seconds acceptable to you under v. 1.8?)

Also, I’m asking again - can I now get rid of the “_Old” files you and Noris had me create as back-ups now that the Core has the new folders and is using them?

08262022 Update -

Opening Roon Core twice today and both times took between 20-30 seconds to launch (seems an eternity in computer processing time…)

Thank and regards,
Lon

[Lon_Baugh]

I sent you a reply with additional information almost two months ago - are you still there to help me with the slow loading issue?
Lon

[benjamin]

Hey @Lon_Baugh,

You have my sincerest apologies for the delayed response here, we’ve been dealing with a higher-than-usual volume following our release and we’re working as quickly as we can to get back to everyone.

We’d be happy to enable diagnostics on your account again to take a look. Are there any changes in your setup and or system since last posting? Please detail where you are seeing a lag in your process, and the steps you take to get to this issue. Is it only when launching? How long are you waiting before you can navigate in Roon 2.0? Does this happen on your remote devices now that you’re on 2.0, or is it only your windows 10 core?

Do you often use and navigate around Roon on your windows 10? If you find yourself using your iPad to control Roon, it may be worth testing out running the headless Roonserver on your windows 10, as it takes much less juice to function compared to the all in one app.

Let me know the above, and share another more recent timestamp of when you experience sluggishness. Thanks

[Lon_Baugh]

I’ll answer your questions here in the order you referenced them above -
No changes to set-up at all
Lag is on launch, exactly the same as previously reported
Lag is anywhere from 20-40 seconds
I don’t use remote devices; the problem continues via Roon on my Windows 10 dedicated device (exactly as previously detailed)
I listen through Roon about 1-2 times every ten days to two weeks.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Lon

[benjamin]

Hey @Lon_Baugh,

I brought your issue to the dev team who took a deeper look into your system specs on your core in relation to what Roon needs to run efficiently. While you do meet the minimum specs to have Roon running, the slowness you’re experiencing could certainly be related to your CPU considering you’re running both RoonServer as well as Roon Remote.

With that, let’s see if refreshing your database helps with things:

• Create a Backup of your current database
• Exit out of Roon
• Navigate to your Roon Database Location
• Find the folder that says “Roon”
• Rename the “Roon” folder to “Roon_old”
• Reinstall the Roon App from our Downloads Page to generate a new Roon folder
• Verify if the issue persists on a fresh database before restoring the backup

Let me know if your issue persists after the above

[Lon_Baugh]

Ben,

I’ve already done what you’re suggesting, twice. I don’t want to do the same things over and over. And, I can’t believe that a machine dedicated to nothing but running Roon with a 3.2 GHz Hex-Core Intel Xeon E5-1650 Processor with 12M Cache, along with 32 GB of RAM is not sufficient to run RoonServer and Roon Remote; it should be ample processing power and memory. So, I’d appreciate your further considerations.

Lon

[benjamin]

Hey @Lon_Baugh,

I wanted to check in on this thread to see if you were still running into issues? We were able to pull up your account on a call to take a deeper look into things.

What does your external storage look like on your windows 10? External storage settings could be the culprit around sluggishness on launch.

If you let Roonserver run continuously in the background, do you still have issues?

If you remove all storage devices/drives attached to the core, do you still have sluggishness when booting up?

Can you confirm you are using the most up-to-date .Net framework and display drivers for your win10 core?

[Lon_Baugh]

Ben,
It is hard to keep up with this matter as your responses are so infrequent. But, I’ll do my best to respond to this latest message to my note to you from more than two months ago:

1. I have no external storage.
2. I only turn on the music server when I’m going to listen to my main two channel sound system.
3. Everything is up-to-date on the music server.

Lon

[benjamin]

Hey @Lon_Baugh,

We very much appreciate your patience as we continue to work through each thread. I wanted to check and see if you’ve ever tried running Roonserver on your core machine, instead of the all in one application?

You can learn more about this here:

Roon Server

I would suggest saving a new backup, and seeing how things run on Roonserver

[Lon_Baugh]

Hi Ben,

I’m not sure that Roon Server will work in my set-up.
I sometimes access Roon for my multi-room system through the music server (I actually remote into it via my laptop). As a result, I need the GUI present on Roon Core and cannot utilize Roon Server in my application. Otherwise, I would need to utilize my Windows laptop as a controller and I find no Roon Remote download for Windows. What am I missing?

As my music server has a 3.2 GHz Hex-Core Intel Xeon E5-1650 Processor with 12M Cache, 32GB RAM, is dedicated to only my music library utilizing Roon and I only have about 1100 albums in my library, I believe I should have no problems or perhaps Roon may have to revisit your minimum system requirements.

I’ll be in touch with updates, as necessary.
Lon

[Geoff_Coupe]

@Lon_Baugh

What am I missing?

You can have both Roon Server and the “all-in-one” Roon package both installed on the same machine. You simply don’t use the Roon Core component of the “all-in-one” package, but use the Core in Roon Server.

However, in your setup, you really don’t need to “remote into your server via your laptop” and use the GUI of the “all-in-one” Roon that you currently have installed on your server. Frankly, it’s a clumsy way of running Roon.

What you should be doing is running Roon Server on your music server (the clue is in the name), and install the “all-in-one” Roon on your laptop. When you first start it up, it will ask you whether you want to connect to the Core on your music server or install a Core on your laptop. The answer is to connect to the Core on your music server. No need to use any remote access program…

[Lon_Baugh]

Thank for your prompt response.

Geoff, with your explanation, it sounds like I’d have to load the “all-in-one” Roon package into my laptop to simply utilize it as a Roon Remote (as there is not a Roon Remote for Windows) - is that right? One thing I don’t understand is why I would then have both the Roon Server and the “all-in-one” Roon package both installed on the music server - when, in your scenario, would I ever utilize the “all-in-one” loaded into the music server? What purpose does that serve?

The second question I have is, given my music server’s specifications, why would I have any performance issues simply running the “all-in-one” on it and simply remote into that machine via my laptop (as I’ve been doing)? Then, there’s only one instance of the Roon Core, not having to load the “all-in-one” into my laptop simply to utilize it as a Roon Remote, riight?

I look forward to your response.

Thank you,
Lon

[Geoff_Coupe]

@Lon_Baugh

it sounds like I’d have to load the “all-in-one” Roon package into my laptop to simply utilize it as a Roon Remote (as there is not a Roon Remote for Windows) - is that right?

Correct.

One thing I don’t understand is why I would then have both the Roon Server and the “all-in-one” Roon package both installed on the music server - when, in your scenario, would I ever utilize the “all-in-one” loaded into the music server? What purpose does that serve?

You don’t do this. What we have been suggesting is that you switch from your current use of the “all-in-one” Roon package on your server over to the use of the Roon Server package on the server. Roon Server is explicitly designed for Server environments. It has no GUI component.

Switching would involve:

• remotely connecting to your server
• ensure that you have a Backup of your current Roon installation on your Server,
• uninstalling that Roon installation (completely - during uninstallation you will be asked if you want to delete the database and settings; you say yes by checking the option).
• installing Roon Server onto your Server machine (get it from the Download page at Roon Labs - scroll down to see the Roon Server package for Windows).
• check the “Launch at startup” option so that Roon Server will start up automatically when you logs in to your server.
• Install Roon on your laptop so that you can control your Roon Core remotely.

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/faq-can-i-control-roon-remotely#Step_1

• the first time you use Roon on your laptop, it will ask if you want to connect to the Core running on your music server, and you make the connection. Since this is the first time of connecting to the new installation of the Roon Server, you will see a logon screen.
• At the bottom of that screen is the option to restore a backup. Choose that and use the Roon file browser to locate the backup that you created on your server. Restore that backup and you’re good to go.

The above steps are essentially what you would do to move Roon across to a new Core. That process is covered in this article; please give it a read.

Moving Roon to a new Server

The second question I have is, given my music server’s specifications, why would I have any performance issues simply running the “all-in-one” on it and simply remote into that machine via my laptop (as I’ve been doing)? Then, there’s only one instance of the Roon Core, not having to load the “all-in-one” into my laptop simply to utilize it as a Roon Remote, riight?

Frankly, as I said earlier, using a remote access program (such as Microsoft’s Remote Desktop) to access the GUI of the full Roon package on a headless server is a clumsy way to run Roon. There will probably be no performance issues regarding the Core, any performance issues will be on the GUI side of things.

Roon was designed from the outset to be able to have its three main components (Core, Control and Output) communicate fully and efficiently over a network - in my opinion it makes sense to use Roon as it was designed. Running a Core on a dedicated server (whether it uses Windows, Roon OS or Linux) and controlling it with Roon’s GUI component on any device (Windows, Mac, Tablet or Smartphone) simply strikes me as the most elegant way to use Roon’s architecture.

Architecture

[Lon_Baugh]

OK, this all sounds reasonable and preferable - I’ll do it.

Two questions:

1. I don’t have anything but the queue of previously played music in my Roon DB (i.e., I’ve created no playlists, no DSP preferences, etc.) As such, I think I’d prefer to start fresh with everything, including establishing a fresh Roon DB instance. So, I’m thinking I’ll let Roon create a fresh DB instance when I’m going through this set-up (bearing in mind that I DO have a Roon DB backup on an external drive I keep…)
   Then, I’ll be using this new set up (i.e., with Roon Server, only, on my music server and using my laptop and iPad as the controllers via Roon “all-in-one” for the laptop and Roon Remote for the iPad) along with a fresh Roon DB instance.
   Do you see any downside to this?

2. You may not have an opinion on this, but I’m considering keeping all my music files (i.e., the primary files for playback) on a separate SSD from that existing SSD which contains my Roon application (now will be Roon Server). Both the existing SSD (and the newly installed separate SSD) reside on the music server (in addition to a third SSD that I’ll utilize for music file backup purposes). Do you see any upside/downside to having the music files residing on a SSD that is separate from the SSD running the Roon Server?

Lon

[Geoff_Coupe]

Sounds fine. So if you want to start with a fresh DB, just log in to Roon Server the first time you connect rather than choosing to restore a backup…

[Lon_Baugh]

Thank you, Geoff. I just added the second query to the one you just responded to. Can you weigh in on that second query?