Roon & Dirac integration again

(Martin Ingvarsen) #1

I know this has been discussed here before…



…but I guess this is a more specific request

I’m using Dirac with Roon on Windows. I’m very happy with what Dirac does but it’s not all that stable. Dirac 1.2 is still not out for Windows even though it’s been out for Mac for over 6 months. So I wrote them to complain and got this answer:

…Anyhow the 1.2 Windows update has not been cancelled and we may even see a complete (free) rebuild of Dirac Live before the end of the year.
Best regards

If Dirac is doing a complete rebuild this year maybe this is the perfect time for a closer integration with Roon. Main reasons:

  1. More stability (if all goes on in Roon).
  2. The possibility to use networked endpoints with Dirac.

Dirac already has a VST-plugin that would potentially solve these problems. I seem to remember a thread (that I can’t find now) where this was discussed and someone from the Roon team mentioned that even though Roon does not support VST plugins maybe they could integrate Dirac in another way. This is just my recollection of the discussion. I apologize in advance if I got it wrong:)

I realize that Roon now has a convolution engine and it’s possible to get room correction that way. But Dirac is so easy to use compared to all other room correction software and the results are astounding.

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Using DIRAC With ROON
(Peter Myers) #2

I agree completely, a tight integration with Dirac would be fantastic, and I also agree that sadly the Dirac Live software is not very stable, nor is it updated frequently. The Dirac team could learn a lot from Roon in this respect :slight_smile:

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(Steve) #3

I’m sure Windows users would have preferred 2016 to 2017.

Yes, Dirac are slow on their releases, but I agree it’s the easiest room correction to use and it’s gives great results. I’ve been endlessly searching for a replacement to generate filters for Roons engine, but nothing out there comes close in terms of ease of use. And I mean the closest is miles away, and the path leads all the way to generating filters with all the parameters on the command line.

The ideal, IMO would be a partnership where Dirac convolution engine code were incorporated into Roon, and only available to those with a Dirac license. We could then enjoy the ease of measuring and filter generation in Dirac but get the same results from Roon. But then it’s a lot of development time both sides just for Dirac users.

A good halfway house would be Dirac letting you export filters (even if it were limited to Roon). But looking at their software development speed and model, this is really unlikely from Diracs side.

So it leaves us with AU/VST plugins, which seems most practical, especially if Roon still intend to add that functionality generally.

Roon and Dirac are made for one another, and would open up room correction to many more users, but I just don’t think it will happen.

Meanwhile, I dream of the above, or the outside chance of another similar (but more open) software coming along.

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(Martin Ingvarsen) #4

I agree with you that it’s not very likely and I’m not keeping my fingers crossed because that would potentially be a very long time to cross fingers.

But I think the time have never been better with Dirac rebuilding and a lot of Roon users after 1.3 getting interested in room correction but realizing how difficult it is to get right.

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(Steve) #5

I’m going to make that suggestion directly to Dirac. Would suggest an other interested parties do the same…

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#6

I think Dirac was/is busy with integrating their software into Amplifiers.
That might be their preferred business right now.
The PC market is maybe not seen to have the same potential than the traditional Hifi market.
For us not so good, but understandable.

(Kal Rubinson) #7

Can you say what is unstable? I am using it with Roon (or JRMC) under Win10 as well as the plug-ins with Win7/BootCamp on a MacMini. Rock stable in all situations. It is installed at boot-up as the default audio device and requires no attention.

(Martin Ingvarsen) #8

Good idea. I have already done so.

(Martin Ingvarsen) #9

I can’t say what has made Dirac crash. It hasn’t happened while I was using it. But the result is that the Dirac zone disapears from the Roon interface and I have to choose another zone. That lowers the wifes apreciation for Roon:)

My solution for now has been to set a timer restart of Windows every night. I haven’t seen Dirac crash since so it seems to be stable for a least 24 hours.

I’m running Roon server, Dirac and JRiver on an Intel NUC connected to a DAC by USB.

(Rodney Gold) #10

I run DIRAC on a hardware box, I would like to transfer my miniDSP license to a computer based one to take advantage of my puters processing power . It cant be done… I’m a bit miffed as I paid $499 for it…not sure why it can’t be converted over.I can’t live without DIRAC…
Roon parametrics just added a cherry on the top re micro tuning the bass for me…

(Steve) #11

I guessed you’d like it from some of our conversations on DC. This sort of setup, with a native Dirac would be truly awesome - like the best thing out there by far. So flexible and user-friendly.

Shame about your license transfer. Seems a bit harsh (as I think you can go the other way) but maybe they can’t disable the box easily?

(W K W) #12

I am using RoonServer directly into Dirac on Mac as the Audio setup for serious listening. Within Dirac I can chose where I want the output. This is rock-stable and I have no desire for playing with VST plugins.

(Dan) #13

You’re obviously one of the lucky ones, I had to stop using Dirac due to distortion that raised it head often, only solved with a Roon or Dirac restart, VST plugin gives better sound quality I am lead to believe, at present it operates as a virtual sound card and in combination with Devialet Air it was a nightmare, so plus one for a solider integration or a VST plugin. As Steve said Dirac is such a brilliant piece of software and so easy to use

(Kal Rubinson) #14

[quote=“Martin_Ingvarsen, post:9, topic:20433”]
My solution for now has been to set a timer restart of Windows every night. I haven’t seen Dirac crash since so it seems to be stable for a least 24 hours.[/quote]Either that or something else is/was happening in your computer overnight.

The reason I switched to BootCamp/Win/VST plugin on my MacMini is that the OS would disconnect any output device that was powered down. So, even though the Mac/Dirac remained on 24/7, it was no longer connected to nor recognized the output device. I have not had that problem since the switch nor ever on my regular PC server which does nothing except run Roon, JRMC and music associated programs. Is your NUC running other programs?

[quote=“Dannythered, post:13, topic:20433”]
You’re obviously one of the lucky ones,[/quote]
There are too many of us to categorize us as lucky or otherwise exceptional. My local group of audio friends run Dirac and they are included.

That said, a better integration with Roon would certainly be desirable.

(W K W) #15

Yeah, I know the AIR problem from earlier versions. I should say that I never put my bets on the Devialet AIR wireless option, but always use a dedicated ethernet with fixed IP. I admit that from time to time it may happen that I get some crackle. If it’s getting too much I switch to Firewire into AES/EBU on the Devialet. THAT IS rock solid then.

(Anders Vinberg) #16

@mitr @Martin_Ingvarsen @Dannythered
I don’t have Dirac yet, but I like what I read.
Especially the time correction.

Does it have the ability to export filters or convolution spec in a form that Roon DSP can import?

REW does that - I don’t know yet if it does time.

Accurate is supposedly awesome but seems to want to turn me into an expert, seems a heavy bar…

#17

I have also been interested in Dirac Live because my rooms are acoustically challenged and room treatment would be complicated and aesthetically challenging.

I would love having Dirac support directly in Roon so that we could apply correction for each zone. Sounds like a perfect combo.

Given the low-volume of amp and processor brands that Dirac currently works with, I would imagine that the Roon user base would not be trivial to them. I would even be prepared to pay a modest per zone fee to make it more attractive to Dirac to directly integrate with Roon and to avoid perceived cannibalization of sales.

I had been thinking of purchasing an amp/processor with Dirac built in, but I would much prefer the added flexibility of Dirac Live in Roon.

(Martin Ingvarsen) #18

Dirac is unfortunately a closed system so there is no import or export of filters unless they were created in Dirac.

I also looked at Accurate and Audiolense before I bought Dirac. Audiolense seemed a little easier to use than Accurate at the time but no way near Dirac’s almost “plug n’ play” capability.

For me Dirac cleared up a big spike in the bass area. The Dirac sound seemed a little thin to begin with because I had grown acostumed to way too much bass at a certain frequency. Slowly I discovered that I could hear a lot more detail in the bass area with the spike gone.

The time correction I think I hear most clearly on voices. I thought I had a good soundstage before but with Dirac the voice is much more clearly situated in the room. It’s like there is a slight echo on voices with Dirac off. I imagine that is because of the time correction.

The great thing is you easily A/B test turning the filter on/off with the 0 key on a keyboard from the couch. It is very easy to hear the difference. I’m not sure I can tell if my Jitterbug is pluged in or not and I struggle to hear difference between High Res and 16/44.1 but room correction on/off is plain to hear.

Sorry this was not supposed be a Dirac commercial:)

(Mikael Nyberg) #19

On my Windows 10 box Dirac used to crash all the time when I used Tidal as my main music player, however Roon seems to “play nicer” and now I rarely experience a crash. I’m using a beta build of Dirac 1.2 that I got after contacting support, but used 1.1. to create my filters after experiencing problems with using the beta for that.

As for integration, I actually prefer using Dirac as a virtual output, since that gives me room correction also on sound from Netflix, Youtube etc. (I use my TV as a computer monitor). Now the ideal situation would be if I could route all the audio in the system into the Roon server pipeline (to take advantage of dsp etc), and in that case, the best place for Dirac would be in that pipeline. So to turn things a bit on the head, I would like the Roon audio pipeline to be available as a virtual output in Windows, with Dirac integrated in the pipeline :slight_smile:

(Nick Allen) #20

Could you explain further how you’re getting this to work?

For instance I go from a SonicOrbiter i5 w/NAS -> Router - > mRendu - > DAC -> Amp -> speakers.

I control Roon remotely. So, where in my chain would I have to make the changes to get Dirac Live to work with Roon?

Thank you