Is there actually any Roon support or is it a community of frustrated users working it out for themselves. I really want mt money back!? Roon crashes constantly on 8 core, 100tb ultra rig
Maybe a little more information might help anyone here to help you, certainly support will require it.
60k tracks is not that large so if you tell us a bit more I’m sure someone will be able to help.
Agree. There are users with a million tracks. I have about 120,000 mostly FLAC tracks and have no issues. I’d start with providing more info to help in diagnosing the problem. It is something other than number of tracks.
What’s your system like @Sean_Going ? Are you running out of RAM? With 60k albums (or over half a million tracks), you will need to make sure your RAM is good. We are adding new metadata all the time, so as time goes on, memory requirements do go up. Normal sized libraries don’t really get concerned much, but the 20 or so of our users (out of over a quarter million users) with 500k+ tracks are extra susceptible to the growth. However, given the immense cost of your library of music, we’ve always just considered the extra RAM to be a drop in the bucket to gain some stability.
@garym, I think he’s using 60k albums, not 60k tracks.
I can encourage that it works with the right technique, but I also wavered at first between frustration and fascination. I did not have enough knowledge.
After reading a lot here, I see a large satisfied and helping community that works with the team on our satisfaction. Thanks for that.
To make the product even better certainly always goes, but the knowledge to make this product better everyone must initiate themselves. It starts with questions and often ends in helping many others.
@Sean_Going, I am fascinated …
- Can you clarify 60k Albums or Tracks?
- What exactly is your Ultra Rig specification etc.?
- What are you doing when it crashes, do you use DSP for example?
- What is your network set up?
uh… @Uwe_Albrecht … I’m pretty sure 2.5 million tracks makes that the largest library we’ve seen, or at least in the top 3.
You must tell us more about your system and the trials and tribulations that led you to today.
I had 2 annual subscriptions to Roon and everything was running smoothly on the same PC (as Core) I am using now. About six months ago my subscription lapsed and I went back to using an older version of JRiver with only my flac library loaded. About a week ago I subscribed once again to Roon and commenced building the library again. Initially it seemed OK when I added a couple of smaller library subsections but it seemed to be much slower than it had been previously. Then it started crashing. Once Roon had crashed the first time and a second opening had been done it crashed within 30 seconds. I discovered that, if I did a restart of the PC then it would typically load about 300 albums before crashing again. By restarting over and over again I actually reached a little over 60,000 albums before it stopped working. I have deleted and reinstalled two or three times but the problem persists. I have checked firewalls, updated GPU drivers etc. trying to find where the problem lies and eliminate possibilities. I have even loaded Roon onto a Dell XPS15 to try there but it still crashed. There is one difference on my PC now in that it is running Windows 11. The XPS15 is still on Windows 10 so that does not seem to be the issue. My system has 64GB RAM and a six core i7-7800X CPU @ 3.50GHz. Libraries are on 3 external drives which are backed up twice on other drives. I tried using backup drives as source libraries but it made no difference. I deleted my JRiver libraries, again to no effect. All metadata on my files have been individually checked and amended as necessary as I have added them over many years of collecting. Since Roon was last working I have added about 2500 albums. Although Roon gives a figure of over 60,000 albums the true total is 21,718 FLACs and 36,794 MP3s. I guess box sets and multi-discs are counted differently by Roon. Is there any other info that would be useful? Is it possible to try loading an older version of Roon?
I know it’s a silly question on a modern pc but is your System drive an SSD , also I assume your Roon library is at the default location on that SSD
60K Albums is a big library even in Roon terms , JRiver will cope better as the metadata , hence the library, is that much smaller
PS is Roon still analysing your library ? That is a very processor intensive process, you may wish to set the number of cores to say 1 then jack up to max overnight when the pc is otherwise idle.
Have you tried disabling AV as a starter?
Also increasing the scanning speed settings here will help with the library analysis spend.
Of course increasing the settings may cause it to crash faster, but it might help
As a JRiver user he probably has AV disabled , it’s one of JimH’s cures for everything
Out of interest , I have my library media drives excluded, everything comes in via a Working drive covered by AV before being copied to library.
Yes I guessed that but sometimes we miss the obvious when trying to help users debug their Roon issues
@Sean_Going please post here about your issues instead of creating new threads.
You need to provide more information so we can help. For example, are you truly talking about 60k tracks or albums?
We want to learn with each other what is going wrong here. You had 2 annual subscriptions and everything went smoothly. Nevertheless, six months ago you did not renew your subscription. You wanted to work again with JRiver that you had also left before. There you used it only with your FLAC files.
Now you’ve been back with Roon for a good week with a monthly or annual license. Why are you rebuilding your library again? Did you delete everything, no backup or ways to access what you had before?
You have the feeling the rebuild will take longer today. Roon checks more carefully if your files are all in order or if they are damaged. Very few programs do this so well. You think that this check takes time on import and leads to a crash after about 300 albums are recognized.
With many restarts, you have gotten up to 60,000 albums. It is therefore a huge library and the many restarts will also have increased the risk that the database has been corrupted. Did only Roon crash or the whole operating system? Are you using a third-party virus scanner or what Microsoft ships by default for security?
Did you successfully scan around 60,000 albums several times with many crashes?
Have you checked yourself if your system is slowed down or hindered by the firewall or do you need a computer expert for that?
Do you have the graphics driver from Windows or from the manufacturer?
How much RAM does your Dell XPS15 with Windows 10 have? Is it running a large enough SSD? Are the same programs there that are already causing problems on the first PC?
How did you install Windows 11 on the first PC. Update or fresh installation? What additional programs were installed? It is recommended to set up a music-only server, which should not be disturbed by much other software, virus scanners, the firewall, etc. Have you considered this and set it up wisely?
The XPS15 is still running Windows 10, so that doesn’t seem to be the problem. Windows 10 or Windows 11 don’t cause any problems. Only if you use many additional programs at the same time and have them in autostart, it becomes problematic.
64 GB RAM and i7-7800X CPU at 3.50 GHz are sufficient unless other programs need the main memory and six cores. Windows doesn’t need that and would give Roon the power if nothing disruptive is installed with it. We need to find the really disruptive thing that has only been running on your devices for the last 6 to 8 months. Do you have a new virus scanner running, have other programs been installed. Is the old JRiver version that you installed extra when you left Roon 6 months ago interfering?
Have you done a main memory test. A defective module can only cause crashes when it is used to capacity.
If the music is spread across 3 external drives, maybe only one is causing problems. Have you tried reading them into Roon in different order?
How did you back up the 3 external drives, did it just keep copying the error? If there are broken music files, Roon is always stopped there. Are the backup drives new or even older. What is the health status of these hard drives?
Are only the JRiver libraries deleted or also the program? Are there any annoying leftovers in the system?
Collecting over many years has the highest error rate for me, especially with the very old files. Can it be different with you? Do you also have these problems with the new FLACs?
With 21,718 FLAC - albums and 36,794 MP3 - albums Roon is not wrong with about 60,000, because there are different ways of looking at what an album is.
Basically, you may keep all downloaded old Roon versions, as you did with JRiver. You won’t be any happier with it though. I tested it that way between 1.7 and 1.8.
Are the devices running under full load or is only one core used for audio analysis. Old fans without care could also become a problem…
There is so much that can be the cause.
So now please tell us more so everyone can help.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
A lot of questions! I didn’t want to use JRiver again, circumstances and COVID meant that I didn’t renew Roon. I didn’t backup Roon as it seemed so stable there wasn’t a need to. I have just tried reloading Roon yet again and it got to 6000 albums quickly with no issues. When I commenced loading the main FLAC library, which is 22K + albums it started off well so I switched off the monitors and left the room. On return it had crashed again and will not open for more than 20 seconds. Only Roon crashes, the OS is stable and running flawlessly. I loaded just over 60K albums on one occasion. I use Kaspersky as antivirus and security. I have checked the firewall and found no issues. I have been using PCs since 1984 and have built my own since 1997 so I don’t think I need a computer expert. I would really like to know what known issues/conflicts are out there. I use graphics drivers from the supplier (NVidia). I tried on the XPS15 to establish if Windows 11 was the issue. The SSD is 500GB on the XPS. As I had the same problem on the XPS it made me think about commonality between the PC and laptop i.e.Kaspersky and one or two other programs plus both are connected over WiFi but that was never an issue in the past as I had used the XPS as a core in another room previously. I took part in the Windows 11 development program over the last year (running in a sandbox) and updated when it became available on the first day. That was on the PC. Why would I need to set up a music only server? My environment work wise would make that impractical and it did work flawlessly before. I use a USB connection to an Audiolab DAC+ feeding Focal PRO Studio Monitors. I use a triple screen rig so I can edit and multitask whilst listening. Please let me know what programs are problematic for Roon. I have 120TB of external storage and have tried loading in several different orders. I have also tried loading from the 2 sets of backup drives (there are a total of 9 drives holding the files. There is no evidence of drives cycling whilst I am trying to load my library. The drives are of different ages but none are over 18 months old. The master drives are 12TB and quite new. If a single broken file crashes Roon (as I imply from your comment) then I don’t think it can be of use to anyone with a large library. Anyhow there is no logic to when Roon crashes as I have successfully loaded subsections (jazz or reggae for example) only for Roon to crash when I have tried to load them again. I just deleted the JRiver library and not the program. There had been no issues previously with coexistence between Roon and JRiver apart from having to close JRiver down to release use of the DAC output.
My computer runs cool and never crosses 40C at the CPU (water cooling) so there cannot be any issue there. Triple fans on the radiator. I have tried at several different core settings. The last attempt was at two dedicated cores.
I have been trying to respond to Danny Dulai on my issues but he doesn’t appear to get them. I then get the following message back:
We’re writing to let you know that the group you tried to contact (community) may not exist, or you may not have permission to post messages to the group. A few more details on why you weren’t able to post:
- You might have spelled or formatted the group name incorrectly.
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Thanks for your response to my issues. I am hoping somebody has an answer.
64GB RAM so I think that should be enough
How much disk space is left on the boot drive…I would recommend at least 20-30% with 64gb of ram in the system.
Re you connecting so many drives at one time? You mentioned 9? Usb hubs can be notoriously unreliable.
Your tips already show a lot of experience in dealing with computers and the selection of components, drivers, building systems, etc. and a lot of love for Microsoft. This was put to the test with me on the way from MS-DOS to Windows 7/8 to Windows 10 so much that since 2016 I also use Linux with fewer problems and faster to build a system. I continue to use Windows 10 and 11, but no longer as the main system. It is always remains old interest, curiosity and serves to compare with Linux (currently Manjaro with KDE).
I therefore see myself in a similar DOS/Windows user experience curve with very large music collection first with Windows. Until Windows 8 I had complementary security software, which was never ideal even with Foobar2000 or other media solutions in my user experience. System and security from a single source I test since Windows 7 with much better results.
Kaspersky would be the first item I would urgently clean up. The love between Roon and Kaspersky showed years ago. Can't get Roon to work properly and you read for years that Kaspersky classifies the Roon installation as malware. How can good cooperation ever work properly?
This year I switched to LinuxServer with Roon, which is no longer disturbed by constant graphical interaction on the Windows core. All input and output is now done through other systems. You would have this better solution for large libraries with two computers right away.
When I read triple screen rig, I immediately get the thought, here is a system used three times heavily (professionally?) and is also supposed to be very large private media server.
Current graphics driver from Nvidia, fast SSD (NVME), i7, 64 GB RAM everything ideal, but the SSD should not perform many other tasks at the same time and have plenty of remaining capacity. Always everything full of programs and music is a performance killer and swap the thing is not only down in performance, but always on the verge of a system crash.
Development environments should never serve as the basis for stable large databases Roon. Only the end devices should run over WLAN if necessary, better everything tied to the cable. But here it is less critical.
My 123 broken files I have deliberately not yet deleted, moved, but copied the metadata to Excel for analysis. With 2.6 to 2.7 million this is extremely little and derives from old errors in the file system of Microsoft. Here Microsoft has already shot me once the file system of an external hard disk, I could rescue all music files with Linux tools and thereby also something was restored, which was really already deliberately deleted and partially overwritten. Part of 123 will explain this and did not crash Roon under Linux.
Many programs tend to leave remnants in the operating system after uninstallation. Good sound with exclusive use of the transport paths is also easily disturbed via fresh drivers of the devices if other leftovers still spark in between. Of course, the joy comes back only when everything works. However, the frustration must not eat up the energy to find a solution.
Thank you for your patience and cooperation. You will have a lot of solution competence yourself and when the frustration turns into energy for the solution, everyone from the team will also do everything to help here.
Multiple monitor setups seems to fly a red flag from issues seen with Roon in the past.
Are you using Roon server or roon all in one?
For reference , I run JRiver and Roon on the same PC , nothing like the number of albums but they “cohabitate” perfectly and have done through the various builds and Versions of both products over 5 years.
My library is more like 8k albums and another 4Tb of video being managed by JRiver . My PC is i7-7700 , 16 Gb RAM 250 Gb SSD (pretty full) .
JRiver always starts before Roon on auto startup because Roon takes that much longer.
In summer my PC is shut down at least daily if not more often due to lightening concerns, not sure if that helps