good point but I’ll pass on four-figure DAPs
what about A&K lower priced models?
Hmm … why is that?
And when my iPhone 13 playing ARC on wi-fi indicates “high-quality” that’s not bit-perfect?
If it’s high quality then no it’s not bitperfect. What are playing via. If you bandwidth is set to original and you have an external DAC connected to the iPhone that supports the format being played it’s bitperfect.
A&K is a DAP based on Android and they use custom methods to works around Androids native resampling for their own playback and also over Roon Ready playback support for some models.
So via ARC it won’t be bit perfect via its inbuilt DAC at this point as ARC doesn’t bypass Androids system resampling for internal dacs it assumes it only plays the android standard and resamples same as the regular Roon app does on android. Currently only USB attached dacs on phones can be bit perfect via Android based anything.
I did not know that, thanks for explaining.
So it seems that a DAP playing bit-perfect ARC is not happening any time soon 
It’s on their radar as a to do, when that will happen only Roon know and they don’t disclose this information for good reason until its close to release.
Do you’ve tested it?
Before selling my SP2000 I’ve used it as Roon endpoint and the playback was (shure it’s roon ready) lossless.
So there is a chance, that it produce also with ARC app a bitidentical output, without using an external DAC.
ARC is completely different to being Roon Ready, its a separate app like Roon remote. Roon Ready is Roons code embedded in the device to allow native Roon RAAT playback not using any additional apps needing to be installed. ARC is made for Android this way only Roon can change its audio path from using resampling as its coded into the app. What A&K have done is make the app available to install nothing more. Some other DPAs the ARC app just doesn’t work well for some reasons, likely blocks some ports it needs.
I don’t agree (on A&K all other player apps, which can installed are not downsampling to 48 kHz) and you don’t answered my question about the SP3000. I’ll think you’ve never touched any DAP from A&K…
You are very wrong. I had a Kann Alpha and ditched it as its Roon Ready performance was gash.
As for Apps your missing the point. Roon apps on Android have resampling built in as they believe its better than the system, resampling of the default Android OS, it doent not take into accoutn any mods the DASP might have to byspass this. All Roon android apps assume that the device uses Androids Audio path and hence system resampling is to be expected, so they resample everything in Roon to what Android tells Roon is the inbuilt dacs native rate. If you care to searhc this forum you will see many mnay posts tellign you this. The same is for ARC as it assumes the same things.
You can choose to not believe what are the facts of the matter if you wish, but this is how it and how its always been with Roon apps.Only now with the latest ARC have they added support for externals DACs with no need to resample, they are looking at doing the same for internal dacs on DAPS at some later date. As of now it stands as I said they wil resample as Roon has it designed that way. it doent matter whatother apps do , as Roon does its own thing.
The above is the case for all apps on all DAPs.
Roon Ready isnt the app as already mentioned and is a completley different thing to ARC.
Do you mind expanding on this? What were the issues? Were they WiFi related?
It’s Wi-Fi chip reception is poor so partly that and Roon Ready would just stop being seen. I have a very good Wi-Fi setup and this is the only device that has ever been an issue. Also I honestly didn’t feel the cost of the unit was justified. The ui was not the fastest, it’s got no flexibility with installing from the play store only what they whitelist and then you have to copy files across. Sound was nice but not what I would call leap and bounds better than my Hiby R5. The battery was also way less than they advertised especially when using Roon Ready. So it went back and I have stuck with the R5 since and been happy. Hoping Fiio m11 passes certification as I would go for that next to replace my head rig in the bedroom, the hiby isn’t Roon Ready so resamples like all android devices with Roon and runs a too old os for ARC.
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Thanks for writing this up.
I recently bought a Mojo 2 and a Poly. I was curious if your WiFi experience with the Kann Alpha was similar to what I’ve experienced with the Poly. They’re both attempts at mobile Roon endpoints, and both are 2.4GHz only.
The Poly does disappear as a zone but it has trouble maintaining a connection, especially when being moved around the house. I have multiple access points (same network) and all of my many other devices roam seamlessly. The Poly doesn’t. I’ve tweaked things to get it behave better but it still has issues.
If I connect the Mojo 2 directly to a phone or tablet via USB, and use the iOS Roon app (or ARC), I have no issues whatsoever. I don’t even have issues if I force the mobile device to be 2.4GHz only.
I’m not sure I get the current value proposition of these very expensive DAPs. Especially given the options that Roon’s bit-perfect USB drivers and ARC have created. You can buy an iPad mini with cellular and a Mojo 2 for around 1/3 the cost of an SP3000. And while cost isn’t going to be the exclusive, or even key, motivator for this demographic, that’s a big difference.
I sometimes wonder if someone should just pick a specific mobile phone and a specific mobile DAC (maybe the Mojo 2) and create a case that holds both and simplifies charging. It wouldn’t be as convenient as a DAP and it wouldn’t support SD cards via ARC (yet) but it might just a reasonable solution until someone makes a DAP that solves for Roon better than the current options.
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Will AQ Dragonfly get bit-perfect stream from an iPhone playing ARC?
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Absolutely not. 
I wouldn’t trade the Poly for that setup. I would far rather just deal with the occasional disconnects.
I have a DragonFly Cobalt. I don’t use it much. When I’m out running or walking, I use AirPod Pros (and Apple Music via an Apple Watch). Just not a lot of application for me for a DAC plugged into my phone.
I understand that my post about the Poly sounded critical of the device, and it was. I wish that it worked better on a home network. But the sound quality, form factor, volume control, single cable to charge, pocket ability of the Mojo 2 + Poly combo is all still very compelling and I actually really, really like it. It’s a keeper until something better comes along.
[Edit : Wanted to add that if I wanted a setup like what you describe, I would do it with an iPad Mini, not with a Pi. The can connect to the Mojo 2 with a USB C to USB C cable (no dongle). It does Roon in landscape mode but, of course does everything else an iPad can do. It’s not a bad setup but it doesn’t fit in my pocket the way the Mojo 2 + Poly does.]
I am OK with 44.1/16 lossless, Anything above is a bonus.
Yep the Kann was similar with Wi-Fi performance due to be crappy 2.4ghz chip. I have other far cheaper 2.4ghz devices that out performed this £1000 device in this regards. I just moved it a little bit in one direction it would drop off wifi. Even under the ap it was still woefully slow performance wise. It shocks me that something that is a premium product is sold with such old and and poor tech inside. If you can’t add good wireless don’t add it at all and keep it an offline player.
I like daps it’s the ability to store the music so it’s available all the time, a phone just doesn’t have that option of capacity and they need way more bits to make it work. I used a Dragonfly for years with a phone but it was a pain dues to all the interconnects and drained the battery to quick. Got my dap I was much happier shame I can’t run ARC on it.
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That is exactly what I have with my old Onkyo DP-X1, which sounds great with music stored on it and played through the onboard Twin DAC:
- crappy 2.4ghz chip, so no good stability / many dropouts as an endpoint for my Roon 2.0 Nucleus
- can’t run ARC on it, as it is not available for the old Android version which serves as the OS layer
This sounds much, much worse than my experience with the Poly. Even before I worked on my network, the Poly kept a connection unless I walked to another room. After tweaking my network it roams less and often roams without dropping.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of “If you can’t add good wireless don’t add it at all”. That applies to DACs and DAPs.
The next couple of years are going to be interesting. As ARC evolves (e.g., becomes able to use SD card storage in capable Android devices), I think the marketplace will evolve as will the creativity of people like us. One thing that’s clear, though, is that, for the most part, high-end consumers are going to mostly pass on multi-function devices with big price tags that don’t just work.
For the curious, here’s what I did to improve the stability of the Poly on my home network, which is end to end Ubiquiti UniFi. Might be an interesting or helpful read for someone.
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2.4 GHz signal strength in my home office was surprisingly poor. I deployed an additional access point there
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I had a single network broadcasting 2.4GHz and 5GHz on a common SSID. I left that alone since I have a bunch of IoT devices on it. I stood up a new SSID on 2.4GHz only and reduced the access points participating on that network to 4 (of 6) specific access points. This eliminated some of the roaming that wasn’t helping (UniFi can notify on roaming - this helped me see what was happening)
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Increased the 2.4GHz channel width to 40 MHz (options here may vary by region)
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Changed the 2.4GHz transmit power from Auto to High
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Disabled BSS Transition, UAPSD, Fast Roaming on the dedicated network
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I’m on a full unifi system to 4 aps over all 3 cover the house one my outside office each using a different channel set. I have to leave 2.4ghz at 20 as I have some legacy devices that just won’t connect to 40mhz. I leave fast roaming on as it makes for smoother transition. All 2.4ghz are on low so I get better overlapping coverage and 5ghz are on medium. If you have them too high you won’t roam and get stuck on an access point far away and lowers your performance.