Roon Ready DAP?

The Pioneer and the Onkyo are made by the same company and are very similar with the Onkyo being the higher specced variant. What I don’t know is if the player will use MQA when acting as a roon end point. The high res capabilities of the DAP are only fully utilised when using it’s own in built music player.
It works well as an end point but remember that there are limitations to small android devices when it comes to being a control point such as no A-Z browser on albums etc.
All in all it makes a very good device but it does have limitations and with v1.3 of roon coming out soon it might be best to wait a few weeks for more resolution as to exactly how MQA will work on DAPs with inbuilt decoding.
Let me know if you want any more info as I obviously own the Pioneer :slight_smile:
I use it as a DAP, Sonos control point, roon end and control point, audio book player, etc


See this for the control point trade offs. The DAP will act as a phone for control.

I agree with ged. I have a DP-X1 and I use it with the balanced output to drive a set of JHA Roxanne IEM’s. The balanced definitely sounds better than the unbalanced out. I don’t think the Pioneer has a balanced out. I also have an Audeze LCD-X but I use that with my home system. The DP-X1 is only used for travel.

ged - question for you. How are you using the Pioneer as a Roon endpoint? I have the sister Onkyo DP-X1 and I have Roon Remote app installed, so I can use it for controlling Roon streams but haven’t figured out a way to use it as an endpoint.

As far as I can tell, the only way to get the DP-X1 to play MQA is to download an MQA file and play it with the Onkyo player. It will do all the unfolding and DAC conversion on board and send analog via either of the headphone jacks. Tidal for Android is not enabled (yet) to stream MQA, that is only possible with the desktop apps, perhaps due to processor requirements?? I know Roon is talking about an MQA software solution but it isn’t clear to me where this will be done in the Core/Server or in the endpoint software.

I just open any control point and click on the zones icon and the Pioneer is shown

Ged,

Thanks for the detailed write up and your help!

Great advice. It makes sense to wait until Roon new software release.

Until that time, I will have a chance to think this through, and decide whether to go the DAP route, or some other solution involving headphones amp, DAC and some type of device as an endpoint.

Quick update (OP here):

I have an opportunity to get the Onkyo DP-X1 DAP for $450 brand new (I am in US).

Would I be making a mistake?

As you know, it has dual DACs and Amps. To be used with “balanced” headphones, whatever that means. How do I tell if the headphones I am about to purchase (Marshall Majors I have don’t cut it) are balanced? Is there a special cable to be purchased with them separately?

Most headphones can be made to be balanced, but are typically not wired that way at the jack end. A balanced cable has a 4 pin XLR type connector, with 2 of each of the 4 wires going to each driver (speaker) set.

However, the DP-X1 balanced out is a 2.5mm connector, not XLR. You need to specific that when buying a balanced cable for your headphones. I got mine from Moon Audio.

It looks like the Onkyo DAP is a no go with Roon. This is what I received from Roon Support when I contacted them directly:

Onkyo devices are not Roon Ready, and the DP-X1 is a self contained device with its own storage and software, like a hi-resolution iPod – it’s not much of an “at-home” device.

I was surprised, as I think Ged posted screenshot showing the similar Pioneer being able to be recognized as a player / end point on Roon. These two players are practically identical.

Thoughts?

Any headphones you would recommend for use with the Onkyo DP-X1 balanced outputs?

Hopefully with no too much customization in terms of fitting a balanced cable, etc.

I am thinking a budget of $500 or so (flexible plus minus $100)

thanks!

Weird but Karl as well as being helpful about the balanced output also said his Onkyo doesn’t appear as an end point.
Hmmm… can’t comment on that.

I would sit down and look at under what circumstances you want to use the end point and control point, home, travel, more than one room, commuting and your budget. Then decide are the DAP compromises too much and if so would you be better off with a fixed end point and a separate controller?

As an example I have four roon endpoints

  1. the rooncore PC feeds a usb converter then into an amp
  2. a rapberry pi with an on board DAC hat feeds an amp
  3. the Pioneer which sometimes behaves as a roon endpoint but which was mainly bought for commuting
  4. a nano pi which feeds a cheap DAC board into active speakers in the kitchen

All, apart from the DAP are relatively cheap but functional and give surprisingly good sound. I stayed cheap as I could see that roon itself was getting more functionality and the hardware support was increasing exponentially. My plan is to replace some of the gear this year when 1.3 is out and the hardware manufacturers have taken advantage of the new features.
Whenever you buy hardware it is instantly out of date of course but unlike some of the amazing rigs that people on this forum own I am staying modest in cost :slight_smile:
Please feel free to continue the discussion, that’s what the forum is for and for once I have something relevant to say!

I would never recommend headphones to anyone. I would ask them a whole load of questions about their previous experience of headphones, size of head, size of ears, do you like light or heavy headphones, are you using them in a quiet or noisy environment, will others be in the room and get annoyed with spill over…
You get the idea.
My advice, go somewhere where they have headphones, a hi-fi dealership, an apple store and try on as many as you can and imagine wearing them for hours and doing whatever it is you normally do with headphones in your environment.
Also, listen to them and see if you can tell the difference between them and if you can is the $500 pair worth the difference over the $200 ones?
Very expensive headphones are a really recent trend - just a few years ago top of the range headphones cost $500 now in parallel with the hi-fi market in general there is an inexorable rise to the luxury end. Personally I am sceptical of the value of top end phones when using ordinary peoples budgets. I would buy a previous top end or near top end set of headphones and a shed load more music. :smile:
Sorry for the rant :blush:

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Ged: Thank you so much for your insights. Absolutely helpful!

I am new to high resolution playback via headphones, other than casual listening via my iPhone and Marshall Major headphones I have.

However, I am not new to home stereo / hifi as I have used them for more than 15 years (including nice speakers from Axiom and now ELAC, Rotel separates, SVS and REL subs, etc.)

This headphones is new to me.

It will only be used in the house (not commuting with it, as I drive to work, and almost never fly), but, I should be able to move it around in my three story townhouse (basement, living room, and bedroom), and not fixed to a PC as a player or desktop outboard amp / DAC.

Any suggestions, feel free to tell me. I am quite open to it. As I said, I am completely open to doing this thing. If I keep the whole thing under $1,000, would be great!

Righty ho. I presume you have a good Wi-Fi signal throughout the three stories?
As to the suggestions read the questions on headphones above and have a think.
Additionally, do you see yourself like a sci-fi monster (British reference here) like the cybermen in Doctor Who with huge headphones clamped to your head or would you like a lighter less restricted experience?
If I remember the Marshalls are quit a small headphone - maybe even on-ear?
Most of the more expensive sets tend to be over ear and substantially heavier and warmer.

Again my best advice go and try some on. I personally detest some of the most recommended headphones as I have a big head (as you can probably tell :slight_smile: ) so they feel awfully uncomfortable on me.
You may be different!
If you live somewhere where it is difficult to get to try headphones then the other thing to do is go on audio forums such as this one and ask if you can try other people’s, hi-fi nuts are amazingly helpful.

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Ged:

Thanks!

I have very good wifi throughout my home. Verizon FIOS 150/150 tier. Also, all my levels are wired with Cat5e.

I am definitely looking for “big” over the ear headphones. I don’t mind the size. I don’t think my family would mind me walking around with big headphones either :smile:

The biggest question is which headphones to pick, and whether to go the DAP route or some other route, which I have no clue.

I may stop by a Magnolia Design Center tomorrow and demo some headphones.

Thanks again for your help.

I follow the writings on Innerfidelity.com. There are headphones listed on the wall of fame. Just to get you started but there are a lot of opinions elsewhere re: the best headphones.

Most enthusiasts have several pair for different listening environments or music. Open back or closed, over ear or in ear. I have a pair of Shure 535 IEMs that really sound great.

Good luck.

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Ged, I haven’t really tried to use my Onkyo as a Roon endpoint but given it isn’t Roon Ready, the only way I can see this would work is to connect it to a PC that is running Roon Server or Core via USB. Otherwise, I don’t think Roon can recognize the Onkyo/Pioneer over a network. Is that what you are doing?

I agree with your advice to thyname. The OP asked for a DAP with a list of capabilities. A DAP is primarily used for portable music, but he says he doesn’t travel much. So why limit your options to a DAP? I think we can be more helpful if you describe your current playback chain and your home use cases. Frankly all you may need is a USB DAC that fits your budget and a Roon endpoint like a microRendu or one of the Pi DIY devices Ged and other posters have mentioned.

I don’t want to go too far OT but for the price range mentioned, my headphone choices would probably be the NAS VISO HP50, which I personally own, or the Oppo PM-2, but I don’t think either support balanced cables. If you can stretch to $1K the Focal eClear is a killer headphone. I have the Focal Utopia which is 4x more expensive but the eClear is very close in terms of performance.

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I believe that thecableco.com has a lending library of headphones they will send you to try. I’ve gotten demo cables from them but have not tried their headphones. I suspect they have a broader selection that Magnolia.