Roon Ready loses connection with endpoint (while AirPlay and UPNP works fine)

[filorus (fam)]

Hello,

I am coming to the end of my Roon trial period in 10 days, I love it (compared to Audirvana I used before), but I am struggling in solving a technical issue that could prevent me from going to a lifetime subscription…

My set-up seems quite simple: At one side of my living room, I have my internet modem (with high speed fiber optical 1Gb internet access), connected to an AirPort Extreme (latest model) and my iMac (with the Roon remote control). The AirPort Extreme works in a bridge mode and manages the wifi that is more reliable than the one of my modem.

On the other side of the room, I have my hi-fi setup, with a DAC with an embedded streamer (a French handcrafted TotalDac d1-Core, with server option, Roon Ready), and a headless non-modified Mac Mini (2014) with the Roon server and my music files.

First, I tried to connect my DAC and Mac Mini to the network through PCL (ethernet through the power plugs - to avoid potentially unstable wifi). Connection was fine, but after a few hours (usually 24 to 48h), if my system was idle, the Roon Ready connection was lost and I had to reboot my DAC to find it back. What was strange is that the DAC was still accessible through AirPlay (with Roon), or through UPNP through Audirvana (without any reboot needed). So it was only the Roon Ready connection that was lost.

I thought that the problem came from the PCL, so I removed them, and I added a second AirPort Extreme near the DAC. This Airport #2 was connected to the first one through WiFi and connected to the Mini and my DAC through ethernet. I also allocated fixed IP for both the mini and the DAC to avoid problems coming from regular DHCP renewal. Same problem as before: after 24/48h of idleness, the Roon Ready connection was lost (unless I reboot the DAC), while the Roon via AirPlay and the UPNP connection were still working properly without any reboot needed.

I read that some issues might come from the Airports… but at the same time, everything else works properly and the DAC remains visible to the network as I can “ping” it and access it through Airplay and UPNP… but the Roon Ready protocol does not seem to like it. That is annoying as the Airplay mode is limited to 16 bits and of lower quality than the RAAT protocol.

Any thoughts? Any specific options to activate/disactivate in the Airports set-up? I would love to solve this issue before my trial period ends as it can be a dealbreaker if I need to reboot everything each time I want to listen to my music.

Many thanks for your support!

Firas

PS: I use the latest version of Roon, the latest Mac OS, the latest Airport version, and the latest Totaldac software.

[ged_hickman1]

The powerline kit as you say is not happy with roon. Unfortunately, Airport Extremes are also not a happy partnership apparently. The support team will kick in no doubt with a more considered response.

Roon topology question

We don’t recommend it because it’s frequently implicated/isolated as the problem in support incidents. I’m not sure whether that is due to a bad WiFi implementation or a weak CPU–we are usually dealing with these problems remotely, without the ability to do detailed analysis. Apple has pulled out of that business…so the products also don’t get good ongoing support, and the last one was released quite a while ago, so they generally aren’t up to the performance of something more modern. I don’t…

[noris]

Hello @filorus,

Thanks for getting in touch with us regarding this issue!

As @ged_hickman1 mentioned both powerline adapters and Apple routers have been known to cause issues within the Roon ecosystem and we would generally advise against using these kinds of setups if at all possible (as mentioned in our Networking Best Practices Guide).

It would always be preferable to use a standard consumer-grade router (TP-Link/Netgear/Asus) and an unmanaged switch if necessary to connect the Roon Core + Audio Devices together via Ethernet. We have seen these type of consumer-grade routers and unmanaged switches typically pass multicast traffic better (and Roon relies on multicast for device discovery such as your Roon Ready Zone).

My suggestion here would be to try and simplify things as much as possible in your current setup to see if things remain stable, specifically by connecting both the Core and DAC directly to the router via Ethernet. If Roon’s multicast discovery is still not stable with both the Core + DAC connected to the router, it very well might be the Apple routers that are the source of this issue.

In my opinion, your best bet for stability moving forward here would be to purchase a typical consumer-grade router + unmanaged switches with direct Ethernet runs, or a mesh network such as Orbi/EeroVelop instead if wiring unamanaged switches is not possible.

If you do decide to go down this route, you may want to purchase this equipment from Amazon or from a location with easy returns in case you later find that it doesn’t meet your needs. I hope this helps but do let me know if you have any follow-up questions!

Thanks,
Noris

[filorus (fam)]

Thanks @noris , much appreciated.

It is strange that Apple Airports work pretty well for general usage (including UPNP protocol) but not for Roon… but it seems to be the case for many users. My internet modem is far enough from my hi-fi set-up so that I cannot have ethernet wires going to the streamer/DAC, that’s why I need to use powerline ethernet (not an option anymore) or wi-fi. I will test the Orbi or Velop (eero devices are not yet sold here in Europe) and hope it will solve the issue. Any recommandation between these 2 models?

I looked at the Network best practices page and saw a comment on the Technicolor routers saying that "This can be resolved by adding exceptions for Roon and RAATServer to the router’s IPv6 firewall settings. ". In the Apple Airport setup, there is a IPv6 firewall activated by default. I will try to see whether unchecking this options solves the issue. But as my Mac Mini (with the Roon Server) and my DAC have standard IP address in my network (192.168.XXX.XXX), any idea how to add an IPv6 exception?

In all cases, as these drop-outs usually happen when I leave my hi-fi system idle for 24/48 hours, I will have to wait a couple of days to check whether the same problem occurs once more.

regards,

Firas

[noris]

Hi @filorus,

Any recommandation between these 2 models?

I don’t have either models to compare, but you can certainly ask for feedback in the software category of this site (#roon) or by searching around a bit.

Yes, we have seen IPv6 cause some issues with Technicolor routers so that it why it is advised to add exceptions to the IPv6 firewall for these routers, unfortunately I can’t advise how to do it for Apple routers, that may best be a question for the Apple forums or Apple support but turning off the IPv6 firewall should provide similar results.

You may also want to check IGMP Snooping/IGMP Proxing settings on the router as this has helped other routers in the past too.

If all of these settings don’t make a difference then taking a look at another router would be the next step, you might want to look into the different routers regardless for the best stability with Roon in general though.

Thanks,
Noris

[filorus (fam)]

Hi @noris
Thanks again, will check all this and let you know if any works.
Since I gave my endpoint a fixed IP, can I “force” Roon core to go and look for this specific IP on the internal network? I saw that the IP of the endpoint appears when it is identified by Roon but what about imposing to Roon to look after specific IPs?
I could not find out this feature in the audio settings…
Thanks
Firas

[noris]

Hi @filorus,

You cannot specify an IP address for the endpoint unfortunately. The way that this works is Roon sends a multicast broadcast packet to the network to identify Roon Ready devices and the Roon Ready devices respond to this request and then become visible in the Audio section.

If something is preventing the proper delivery of these packets, such as a firewall or issues with the router’s configuration itself then this is why the Roon Ready device does not show up there.

I also had this other TotalDac case a while ago that may be useful in troubleshooting here: (Router change causing problem). The solution for that case was to add a network switch in between the Dac and the router, so this may also be an interesting aspect to check.

– Noris

[filorus (fam)]

Hi @noris
Many thanks. Since our last discussion, I did the following:

• Gave fixed IPs to the Mac Mini with the Roon Core and to my endpoint (Totaldac)
• Unchecked on my 2 Airport Extreme the IPv6 firewall option that is checked by default in the network options
• Checked the IGMP Snooping option in the network options as well
  So far, I did not have any dropout of the Roon Ready connection since then… I will revert in the coming 2-3 days to confirm whether the issue is settled or not (as sometimes the dropouts may appear after 24/48h of idleness).
  Regards,
  Firas

[filorus (fam)]

Hi @noris

Unfortunately I had false hopes with my previous set-up… I left my system idle for 48h for a trip and Roon Ready connection is again lost. As you can see in the first picture, my TotalDAC is visible on the network through Airplay (and UPNP with Audirvana works well):

Rebooting my Mac Mini or the Airport Extreme does not change anything. However, when I reboot the TotalDAC, the Roon Ready connection comes back:

Before buying a pair of Velope for a try, I will try a last set-up: I removed the second Airport Extreme that was bringing internet to the Mac Mini and the TotalDac. Instead, I connected the Mini to my first Airport (that is connected to the router) by wifi, and directly connected the DAC to the ethernet port of the Mini, in bridge mode (the Mini shares its internet connection with the DAC). Roon now “sees” the TotalDAC as a bridge device (with the IP of the Mini). I will see if removing an Airport will change anything.

Should you have any other thoughts… don’t hesitate.

Thanks - Firas

[noris]

Hi @filorus,

Sorry to hear that the TotalDac disappeared once more. Hmm, one other aspect that may be interesting to check here would be to make sure that the TotalDAC is using the newest firmware version as I don’t think we’ve looked at this yet. Can you please check to see if there is perhaps an update that the manufacturer can provide? Do let me know if there is any change with the secondary Airport Express out of the equation as well.

– Noris

[filorus (fam)]

Hmm, one other aspect that may be interesting to check here would be to make sure that the TotalDAC is using the newest firmware

Hi @noris
Yes, I am using the latest software of the TotalDac, released by the manufacturer a couple of weeks ago. I already shared this problem with him a month ago.
I will revert in a couple of days to inform whether the internet bridge (actually it is the internet sharing feature within Mac OS -wifi to ethernet-, not a pure “bridge”) solves the problem.
Thanks

[filorus (fam)]

Hi @noris

I am becoming desperate about this as the Roon Ready connection dropped again after a few days, while the DAC is directly connected to the Mini, and shares his internet connection (the Mini creates a sub-network with the DAC).

What is more frustrating is that UPNP connection still works flawlessly, and the DAC remains visible through Airplay. How it comes the Roon Ready connection can be so unstable?

Before buying a pair of Velop, I will try a last set-up by connection the Mini to my internet modem (without connecting it to the Airport #1 wifi). So now, the Mini talks direcrlty to my internet modem through wifi, and is directly connected to the DAC by Ethernet and internet sharing. No more Airports in this set up.

Will revert in a few days…

Thanks

Firas

[filorus (fam)]

@noris

Issue solved. In parallel to our discussions, I contacted the TotalDac manufacturer to raise this issue with him. After some research, he notices that the Roon Ready connection drops came from the Stand By mode of the DAC. I did extensive tests by just turning off the DAC display (for energy savings) without using the standby mode and everything is working perfectly. He is now working on a patch to solve this.

So now my DAC is connected to my Mac Mini in a bridge mode (the Mini connected by WiFi to my airport extreme) and everything works flawlessly… And I am now a happy lifetime Roon member !

Thanks again for your support, it’s amazing to have such a helpful community, it made all the difference in my decision to subscribe for Roon.

Firas

[noris]

Hello @filorus,

Thank you for the update! I’m glad that the manufacturer was able to narrow this down to the standby mode and is working on a patch to address this behavior. Also glad to hear that you purchased a lifetime membership, welcome aboard!

– Noris