Roon Running Very Slow, Lag Moving between screens

Roon Server Machine

Roon NUC 8GB Gen 7 Intel i5. 500gb system drive with 98% free. 40k tracks over 5k albums.
Apps affected - Mac, iPad, & iPhone

Network. Ubiquiti UDM Pro, Cat 6a Wired & 1gb Fibre between router and Roon Ready DAC. Internet is 250 down and 35 up

Roon endpoint = Auralic VEGA G2.2

For the last couple of releases, I seem to be moving from sort of acceptable speeds to wading through treacle. Today, I timed it at 40secs for the Home Screen to load (about 11am UK) and just now (11.15am) to only taking a couple of seconds.

Is there some sort of memory leak going on again at Roon servers like the 1353 build? The inconsistent performance from one minute to the next is taking all the joy out of listening to music. Very frustrating.

No matter what I do, Genre screen seems to take about 10-20 seconds to load… Artist the same. Just feels like the last few months the product (Roon Software) is in a downward tail spin of deteriorating performance.

Edit. iPhone app has now stopped loading thumbnails. I’ve rebooted, Roon & the OS a number of times but will try again.

Edit 2. Rebooting did speed it up again for now but this fix doesn’t seem to last… going on previous occasions doing the same thing.

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Hi @Duncan_Andison,

Thank you for your post and we’re sorry to hear you’ve been experiencing frustrating performance issues. A few questions will help expedite our troubleshooting:

At your convenience, can you please share a screenshot of the RoonOS web administration page for this ROCK?

Do you experience these loading issues on every Roon Remote, if you have multiple?

Do you have any QoS settings in place on the Dream Machine?

What about playback symptoms - do you ever experience slow buffering times, unnatural pauses due to buffering failures, or connectivity issues with any of your networked DACs? What about playing to the system output of a WiFi-connected Remote?

We’ll activate diagnostics mode for your account, which should autogenerate a software log report from RoonServer. This should provide the team with more granular insight into what backend processes are slowing down Roon.

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Hi @Connor thanks for getting back to me. The screen shot of the Roon Settings Web page.

I don’t have any profiles limiting bandwidth in operation for this the main LAN / network. I have a separate IoT network which is ring fenced from the main network / LAN. That one has a speed cap but neither the Roon server or and of the remotes utilise that.

You may have seen in the other thread what issues I have been experiencing.

  1. The Mac, iPad and iPhone app would crash (close down) at a certain point of scrolling through my albums (approx 5k - 40k tracks).
  2. Lag when moving between screens. Approx 20 secs or more to load the full Home Page & 40-50 secs to load the Genre page.
  3. Only on a few occasions do I get a delay on starting a track. The track playback position sometimes scrolls backwards and forwards as if it was buffering for a couple of seconds. This doesn’t happen that often.

What I’ve done so far.

  1. Rebuilt the Roonserver database/server following procedures listed in other threads. i.e. renaming RoonServer to RoonServer_Old etc.
  2. Changed settings on Roon Settings Web page to fixed IP to match the settings in UniFi. All endpoints, NAS Drives and servers etc have fixed IPs.
  3. DNS server on Roon Web Page settings changed to CloudFlare (1.1.1.1). Changed the settings in UniFi from Auto DNA (would have been Virgin Media DNS server) to CloudFlare (1.1.1.1 and 1.0.0.1).

The changes above have helped.
(1) stopped the crashing, I can now scroll through all the albums without the apps closing down.
(2) didn’t seem to make any difference but was probably best for completeness.
(3) improved the lag a lot. The lag opening the Genres screen reduced from 40+ secs to 7secs with google DNS and 3 secs with cloud flare. The Home Page now took 2 seconds with CloudFlare.

This morning the lag is creeping back (8:06am today) I loaded the Genre screen and it took 8 secs. Still a lot better than the 40+ but up from the 3secs from yesterday. Concerned this will return to the 40+ again.

On one occasion yesterday (before the changes) the iPhone App took so long to load the Genre screen I closed the app (5 minutes). It then matched the times taken by the Mac app. It’s matching the Mac this morning in terms of time to load Genre (8:09am today)… about 8-9 secs.

Playback through the Auralic VEGA G2.2 feels snappy most of the time. There are occasions when there is slight delay when pressing pause / play but rarely. No problems streaming to the iPhone, iPad or Mac over WiFi. Everything else is hardwired.

Other settings activated in UniFi - IGMP Snooping, IGMP Proxy, Multicast DNS, DHCP Snooping and Flow Control.

Thanks again for your help.

Ok. The time it was taking to load the Genres screen had increased to 12-14 secs by 12:30 today from the 3 secs of yesterday. I’ve just rebooted the NUC, Rock OS and Roonserver and the time it takes is now back to 3secs.

Is this another memory leak or something that’s building over time? At 12:57pm it only took 2-3 secs to load… 1-2 for the Home Screen again. It doesn’t seem this is purely a DNS thing. Next time I’ll try rebooting just RoonServer to see if it improves first… then reboot Rock if it doesn’t.

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Hi @Duncan_Andison,

We’re investigating your report with development and will circle back shortly. Thank you for the upate.

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Hi @Duncan_Andison,

We’ve combed diagnostic logs and isolated the increase in loading times you mentioned in your latest post.

A notable finding is that, during that approximate time interval, RoonServer is actively processing a voluminous track play history associated with your library, nearly 102 days of listening time. No doubt this is an illuminatory dataset for your music taste and collection, but we want to test with it disabled to see if there’s an inverse causal relationship with database performance.

First: create a Backup to retain any listening history and statistics you might find useful in your library.

Then, try the following:

  1. Navigate to the History tab in Roon and double-click a track to enter Focus

  2. In the upper left dropdown menu to Select, choose “Select All”

  3. Click the Edit button to open the History Editor window and select Delete Plays

  4. Restart RoonServer and relaunch your Remotes

  5. Try to reproduce the performance issues

You can restore the Backup at any time to bring back your full play history.

We’ll be standing by for your response. Thank you!

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@connor Flippin heck. It actually dated back to January 2020… there were 63,670 entries in total!

Anyway, restarted the NUC / Roon server etc and all apps were closed down. The time it takes for the Genre screen to load is still at the base 3-5 sec point it was at when restarting the server without deleting the history. So, it doesn’t seem to improve it but I’ll monitor it over the next day to see if it starts to increase again as it did before.

I did notice this evening that if I pause a track and then play it it seems to responding quickly. If I press previous to replay the track, that takes a few secs to sort itself out. Thanks again for investigating this.

Edit. It’s already at 7-8 secs.

@Connor Just adding a couple of screenshots confirming network latency for the Roon NUC & The Auralic VEGA G2.2. While this confirms ISP latency for each device it also shows the latency from the router to each confirming there are no issues, bottlenecks there.

Edit. There’s been a few 20+ sec waits on the Genres screen this morning.

Edit 2. NUC was shutdown and taken offline to add the additional 8GB of RAM. It was added back and came online approx 10:50am. Genre screen loads in the usual 3-4 secs after server restart.

VEGA G2.2

Roon Rock NUC

@Connor Hi, do you know if there’s been any progress with this. Even after an extra 8gb RAM, deleting the history and using Cloudflare DNS it is now back to being over 20 seconds to load the Genres screen. The home is very laggy at times as well. Thanks

@Connor I had to reinstall Arc as it wasn’t connecting to the Roon Server… all ok now and selecting Genres in Arc is instant whereas it’s 12secs to load on a good day and 20-30 secs on a bad on the Mac, iPhone and iPad apps. At which point I have to reboot and start the process again.

Okay, I take it that this is the end then. No response in over a week. A case of don’t know what to do so we won’t respond?

I’m still rebooting the Rock NUC to reduce the lag with Genre and Home screens. Even after the last update.

A case of the support team being just four people with too much to do and they will get back to this once it is back to the top of their queue.

That there is something that Harman does need to change. While I can sympathise with individuals for being over worked and stretched, it’s still unacceptable (from the company) to leave a customer hanging for over a week after tagging a member of support with no response… even to say we’re busy and we’ll get back ASAP. Especially when they ask you to do something and when you report back to them to not respond is a bit off.

I know plenty of others are in the same position after reading other threads…just comes over to a customer as being forgotten / ignored /unimportant. It’s not the impression you want to give for a premium product.

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Yeah, no argument from me against this. Luckily, change may come:

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Hi, it’s been over two weeks since I replied to the question from Support but there’s been no follow up. The last couple of days have been worse, lag with loading album details and I’ve resorted to daily reboots of Roon Rock but even that results in 5-6 second delays loading the Home Screen and 10 seconds for the genre screen. This doubles after a day.

Can either @Connor @Benjamin or anyone from support for that matter provide an update as to what is going on. Thanks

Hi @Duncan_Andison,

You’re correct and we’re working to improve both the experience of support and the perception of the onlooker of Community. @Suedkiez is correct that we’re a small team undergoing massive transition to better support a growing user base. These promised changes have yet to come to fruition, but there is enormous movement behind the scenes. Here’s where things stand in your case:

The symptoms you’ve reported can emerge from three mechanisms in the context of the current public builds of Roon - the first is a known vulnerability with the Remoting protocol for which we’ve been development improvements. When inquiring about Play History, it was in pursuit of evidence that you were encountering this issue, although it was not a direct A/B test. This fix is undergoing testing over in Early Access - if you’re interested in moving your Core to the test branch to see if it remedies these performance issues in your own environment, please follow these steps.

Neglecting to post an update on this thread was my failure - not out of malice of oversight, but simply the volume of work requiring my attention. For that, the team apologizes, but gives our assurance we’re not unaware of the issue nor choosing to underserve our users. Behind Community, there’s a concerted and professional effort to triage technical reports into actionable steps for developers so the product can improve. Our users deserve to know when we’re working on problems that affect us all - response time, and more importantly, response efficacy, are something we aim to improve.

Some more notes to pass on from diagnostic reports:

  1. Your subdirectory taxonomy and the ratio of tracks to folders within is taxing RoonServer’s indexing process. That’s a verbose way to say that you have a large number of tracks stored in places where RoonServer is only expecting 10-20. See this post for more clarity:

This probably is not the single cause for your issues, but it’s likely contributing. If you have “track dump” folders containing hundreds or thousands of artists, it might be worth subdividing them in some way.

  1. Network connectivity. RoonServer is noting connection refusals with the iPad, preceding dropouts of that Remote and Zone. Changes coming in Early Access might also help with this, but variably. There are prebuffer timeouts with Qobuz in logs - this is an upstream connectivity issue likely unrelated to throughput and network speed, and more likely resulting from network filtering or DNS issues in the router’s connection to Qobuz.

What happens if you sign out of Qobuz on the ROCK and play only local music?

  1. We don’t have firm evidence you’re experiencing the issue for which we’ve just released a fix in Early Access. However, it’s quite likely a contributing factor. This fix will be released to the public build of Roon soon, if you don’t want to switch to the test branch.

That’s all I have at the moment, unfortunately. Hopefully, these notes provide some context and leave you feeling supported, not abandoned.

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Thanks @Connor, I understand where you’re coming from in terms of resources!

Couple of questions.

  1. File storage. I did have a few folders with more than 30-40 tracks in so I’ll place them into sub folders within one main one. A bit like a folder for multi CD albums. But, I also have a collection of a lot of single files under an artists name. Will having just 1-3 tracks in a folder be an issue?
  2. Nested folders. Is there a max in terms of nested folders when separating albums, tracks within genre / category folders etc?

As for filtering / DNS with Qobuz. I also use the Qobuz app and the Auralic app that has Qobuz linked and I can browse their catalogue through that as well. Both Qobuz direct and via the Auralic LDS app, browsing Qobuz files is very fast and smooth. Almost instantaneous. There’s a bit of lag when using the Mac Roon App but the iPhone & iPad apps are rough to say the least. Scrolling is jittery and laggy if you try to move around your library. I try to only use them to control, pause, start etc. A lot of my browsing is done via the Mac.

Given Qobuz has zero issues via their app and the Auralic one, I can only assume the issues are with the Roon App, system.

I’m currently working through the library tree structure to make tweaks etc and will report back. Thanks

Edit. Removing Qobuz made no difference.

I’ve removed the bulk of my local files (and the internal drive), just added a folder of high resolution files for now (on the NAS) while I sort through the others.

The lag is back down again but until I’ve waited for a few days I’ll not know whether that’s from the reboot of the Roon Rock server.

@connor

Ok. These are the things I’ve tried so far.

  1. Logging out of Qobuz - No improvement.

  2. Removing all local files from the internal drive on the Roon Roc k NUC. I have added a link to an external folder on a NAS which contains a small group of well laid out high resolution files - No improvement.

  3. Disabling Ad Blocking within Ubiquity UniFi - No improvement.

  4. Disabling Traffic & Device Identification within Ubiquity UniFi - No improvement.

  5. I’m now running early release IOS Apps (iPhone & iPad), Mac App and Roon Rock Server - No improvement to the lag but there was a small improvement to the jittery scrolling. It hasn’t removed it altogether but it’s not quite as bad now.

Other things I’ve noticed.

  1. The Qobuz screen takes a similar 8 seconds or more to load. Similar to the Genres page. About 4-5 seconds to load a playlist page. Once it’s loaded once, it seems to cache it and it’s more or less instant on future visits… provided there have been no changes to content.

  2. As I drill down each genre there is a delay. If it’s Pop/Rock the delay is 6-7 seconds while others are only 1-2 secs (electronic). Using Focus Rock/Pop = 868 Albums and Electronic = 580. There is a lot bigger difference in time that there is in volume of albums. As above, once it’s loaded once, it seems to cache it and it’s more or less instant on future visits… again, provided there have been no changes to content.

  3. Auralic LDS app is a lot faster with Qobuz and local files. As in, more or less instantaneous when moving from new releases, playlists and favourites etc. This is using the same router with firewall and filtering etc.

  4. If the problem was with filtering within the router, I’d expect it to effect other apps as well but, the fact that it doesn’t and that a reboot of the server greatly improves performance leads me to think the problem lies either within the Rock OS, Roon Server (local) or the external connection to Roon.

I’m in the process of tidying up the rest of my media. Reducing the levels of nested folders and removing duplicates etc but as removing them altogether hasn’t made a difference I don’t expect it will have an impact. Other than being tidier, which is good.

Things that run perfectly in terms of speed of loading and browsing around. Albums, Artists and tracks etc. If I was to guess, these require no input from the external Roon Server and this is why they work well. Once you require the external server to carry out any number crunching etc, then that round trip is what’s causing the lag… or so it would seem.

I’m guessing here but I’d imagine there will be a number of Roon servers to that a customer will connect to depending where they’re based. Maybe some of these are performing better than others… maybe there’s a routing issue to some of the servers. Really couldn’t say but other apps / systems are performing a lot better than Roon when using Qobuz and local files.

Hi @Duncan_Andison,

Thank you again for these diligent reports. While our commentary here is sparse, this information has proven highly illuminating for our investigation.

We’re zeroing in on performance issues and you should see several tickets that improve this overall experience. In the meantime, please create a new topic thread if symptoms worsen or change in nature.

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