Roon slow performance and Qobuz albums not syncing after update (ref#QWF79U)

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· Nucleus One

I'm having trouble with my Nucleus hardware

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· The Nucleus boots up and I can connect to it in the Roon app without issue, but I have a question about configuration/storage/attached devices

Describe the issue

ref#WN3ULF
15 hours after updating to last version playing around with my remote, iPad, adding new albums, checking the queue which are 140 tracks long everything is slowing down. The jellyfish is back and audio endpoint is lost, local time Oslo 10:50, music stops and remote is freezing. 10 - 20 seconds later remote wakes up and the next track is ready to play. So on my end nothing has changed. I’m getting frustrated. And BTW, newly added Qobuz albums are not syncing to Roon.

Hey @BergeP,

Thanks for sharing your report on the latest update, and sorry for the frustration. You’re right that nothing changed on your end, and the logs back that up.

The cause is upstream of Roon Server, on your network. Two devices — 192.168.1.140 and 192.168.1.131, are advertising themselves as RAATServer endpoints, accepting the connection from your Nucleus One, and then immediately dropping it. They’ve done this 226,871 times in the ~20 hours of logs we’ve reviewed, at up to 135 times per second. That churn floods Roon Server with device-state updates it has to buffer for your remotes, and rebuilding those buffers is what drives the memory spike that freezes everything. Neither device ever finishes handshaking, so neither shows up as a usable zone, they’re producing nothing but load.

One reassuring thing: your Nucleus One never actually ran out of memory. There’s no sign of the operating system killing Roon for memory exhaustion anywhere in those logs. What’s happening is that the server gets so busy cleaning up after this loop that it stops responding, and the watchdog restarts it. That’s a meaningful difference; it points at the loop, not at your hardware being undersized.

The one thing that would help most, could you identify what’s at 192.168.1.140 and 192.168.1.131? There’s a third at 192.168.1.200 that’s behaving normally, so it may be a sibling of those two.

If you can power those two down and let Roon run for an hour or two, I’d expect the stalls, the spinner and the endpoint dropouts to stop. That single test will confirm the diagnosis. If one of them is a Docker install, it’s also worth checking it’s set to host networking, bridged networking is a very common cause of this exact “connects then instantly drops” pattern.

On the Qobuz albums: that’s a separate problem, and it is on our side, not yours. Your Qobuz sync is running correctly and Roon is receiving your new favourites, I can see your library go from 5,319 to 5,320 albums during the logs. But the step that publishes them into your library is gated behind a periodic full metadata refresh that last completed on 31 July and hasn’t run since. There are currently 70,129 items queued behind it. So the albums are arriving and then sitting in a queue. We’ll need to look into this further.

Two smaller things worth mentioning:

  • Your queue was 7,999 tracks at the time of the stall, not 140, that’s Roon’s maximum queue length, and shuffle was on. A queue that size is significantly more expensive for the server to hold and to re-send to your remotes each time one reconnects. Clearing it down won’t fix the root cause, but it will take real pressure off while we sort the rest out.
  • Your Samsung T7 SSD is showing as offline to Roon (DriveNotReady). If that’s meant to be part of your library, let me know and we’ll look at it separately.

Let me know what those two IPs turn out to be and we’ll go from there. :+1:

Hi @benjamin , the two IP adresses are my iPhone, …131 and one of my iPads, …140, both used as remotes. I have one more iPad, …200, only used for showing what is playing, kind of passive remote. So it looks like we have a problem between the Nucleus and my remotes. They all use the Roon app for communicating with N1. About the Samsung SSD that is strange because all my local music is on that drive and everything shows up inside the Roon app. What to do?

Should I delete the Roon apps from the two devices that makes trouble?

I have now deleted the Roon app from my iPhone and iPad

On this two devices I also have the Meridian Control app that I control my 218 with. Are you able to see if the Meridian app is causing any problems?

Hello @BergeP,

We owe you a correction, and we are sorry: the advice we gave you was wrong. Please put Roon back on your iPhone and iPad.

We told you two devices on your network were misbehaving. They were not. Your own logs show why: three days after you removed those two apps, the same reconnect pattern appeared on your third iPad, the passive one we told you was behaving normally. It followed whichever device was left, so it was never about those two.

The reconnect loop is not the whole story either, and this is what we should have led with. Your server is stalling because of how it manages memory. On the morning you reported, at 10:49 Oslo time, it stopped for 14.3 seconds inside a single 15 second window. That is precisely the freeze you described, and why the music stopped and the remote came back 10 to 20 seconds later. It was not your network, your remotes, or the Meridian app.

The better news is that your own logs show it easing. Counting the number of measurement windows per day where the server lost more than a second to memory work: 428 on the 7th, then 245, 152, 90, and 61 today. The severe stalls have gone the same way, from 30 windows on the 7th down to a handful. You should be noticing fewer interruptions than you were last week, and if you are not, tell us, because that would be useful to know.

Our development team is actively working on memory behavior in Roon Server. We are adding your data to the thread where we track the memory problems that remain, so your case is counted rather than treated as a one off. There is nothing further for you to test or change, and we will only come back to you here if there is something specific we need you to try.

Hi @vadim and @benjamin

Good to hear. Living with Roon without an active remote is kind of boring.

But what about the Samsung T7 SSD that I was told is showing offline to Roon. I can see all albums, play all albums and see the SSD inside Roon, as a disk in the Backup section and in the Storage settings. Is this a bug fixable from Your side.

I will activate the remotes again on my phone and pad and hope for the best and follow up if something is happening.

The good part is that my system has been running for 4 days and 6 hours without a restart or reboot so something correrct is happening. Hope this is not only because of little activity inside Roon, adding and grooming albums.

BTW. I’m having trouble with editing albums. When I choose another version the album art is not following and Roon’s own stock art is showing. The only solution is to find the right cover online and ad it manually. Please fix, verry annoying and it’s been like this for a long time

Hey @BergeP,

Thanks for the additional info! Good news on the SSD, I went back through your latest logs and the T7 is healthy. It’s mounted, readable, being watched for new files (it picked up and imported a new album yesterday evening without a hitch), and every track played from it succeeded. There are no drive errors of any kind in this set. Nothing to fix on that front, and nothing you need to do. My previous suspicion can be disregarded based on these fresh Roon Server logs.

I’m curious, are you using either of your iOS remotes (triggering the connection storms) as actual audio endpoints?

If not, I’d test disabling their system outputs and see if things continue to run smoothly for you. That way, you’d still be able to use them as remotes.

We’d be happy to take a look into this as well, if you could please share a few specific examples. Thank you!

good morning @benjamin , @vadim

it just happened. Lost audio end point, lokal time 07.23 and the track is Topsy with Buddy Tate. This was after 5 days and 20 hours so maybe the new normal? I did not make a reboot just to see how long it goes to next drop out.

Local time 08:35, Vince Guaraldi - Charlie Brow track, audio endpoint lost for the second time. Time for a server restart.

Non of my IOS remotes are used for audio endpoints. My only endpoint is my 218. So if you can disable their system outputs, please do and see if it makes things any better.

The album problem seems like history. Groomed yesterday and everything worked as expected..

And it happened again, local time 20:40 track Álom with Ferenc Snétberger, audio drop out. Only 12 hours since server restart.

And again local time 07:56, track Terje Gewelt November, audio end point lost wile opening Homepage on Roon for checking the Daily Picks. Before the music stopped the jelly fish was spinning around and it took some time before the page opened. Server been running 1 day and 23 hours.

Is this because of the RAAT communication between the N1 and my IOS remotes?

Thanks for follow up.

Hi @BergeP,

We’ve enabled some additional diagnostics for your Roon Server, if you could please reboot Roon Server twice, and then attempt to reproduce the issue at your convenience, that would be helpful.

Thank you!

Hi @benjamin and @vadim ,

I have now rebooted twice. What is strange is that before the double reboot the system has been running for 3 days, 15 hours and 8 minutes. Had some problems with Daily Picks coming and going a couple of days ago but suddenly everything is running pretty smoothly. The only issue is when opening the remotes on the Home page the jellyfish is arriving and it takes about 20 - 30 seconds before it shows the content and the gap between songs are getting longer.

Have you disabled the system output on my IOS remotes?

Thanks for follow up.

Hey @BergeP,

Thanks for doing the double reboot and for your patience on this one. The extra diagnostics gave us exactly what we needed, and I have a clear answer for you now.

First, a correction. My original read in post #2, that something was reconnecting to your server thousands of times, was correct but a bit off. The pattern moved between your devices, which made it look like we’d chased a red herring. It moved because the problem isn’t in any of your devices. It’s in Roon Server.

What’s actually happening. When you open Roon on your iPhone or iPad, the app runs a small audio service that your server connects to. When iOS backgrounds the app, that service stops answering but leaves its door open, the server can knock, but nobody responds. That part is normal iOS behaviour.

What isn’t normal is our side of it. Roon Server is meant to slow down and back off when a connection keeps failing, and for most failure types it does. But in this specific case, connection accepted, then immediately dropped, the back-off never engages. Your server was re-dialling as fast as 149 times per second. Across the 29 hours of logs that’s 228,364 reconnection attempts, of which only 57 ever got an answer.

All that churn inflates the server’s memory footprint. Not because anything leaks, left idle overnight your server is rock solid, memory didn’t move more than 26 MB across four hours. But each of these episodes roughly doubles it, and past a certain point the memory cleanup starts taking multi-second pauses during which everything stops. We measured pauses of 7–11 seconds recurring every few minutes, worst case 13.7 seconds. That’s your jellyfish, and it lines up almost exactly with the 14-second stall we saw earlier.

The detail that explains a lot: those freezes continue after the reconnection storm stops, because the memory stays inflated. That’s why a reboot helps for a while and then quietly degrades, which is exactly the pattern you’ve been describing.

Your open questions:

  • Were the iOS system outputs disabled remotely? No, and they’re all still showing as enabled in the logs. It is worth doing manually: on each iPhone and iPad, go to Settings → Audio and disable the “This iPhone” / “This iPad” output. Worth re-checking occasionally, as they can re-enable themselves after an app update.
  • Is RAAT communication between the devices the problem? Essentially yes, but it’s the server’s handling of it, not the devices talking to each other. Nothing you’ve set up caused this.

On the endpoint dropouts, we couldn’t find them in this capture. Your Meridian 218 is completely clean across the full 29 hours: no buffer underruns, no disconnects, no failed commands. That’s good news, but it also means that if they return we’ll need a fresh log with a rough timestamp, since the cause may be separate from the freezing.

Where this goes from here. I’ve filed the full analysis with engineering. Disabling the iOS system outputs should give you real relief in the meantime, and rebooting remains a legitimate reset when things get sluggish. We’ll update this thread once I have something concrete on the fix.

Hey @benjamin ,

Thank you for the detailed answer. You say that my IOS devices are showing as enabled in the logs. The strange thing is that they are never enabled. I only use them as remotes so that is odd. As I told you in a previous post the only enabled audio device is my 218.

Before the double reboot my system was steady for 3 days and 15 hours so there is no wonder why you couldn’t see any endpoint dropouts. And now the server has only been running for 24 hours after the reboots. 9 of those hours I have been away so the server has been "sleeping ".

Hello @BergeP

The diagnostics are still running, so please use Roon normally. What we need now is behaviour over the next few days with these logs capturing it.

Each time it happens, please note the local time and what you were doing, whether the remote froze, the audio stopped, or both. A rough time is enough.

If you do reboot, please tell us when, so we can separate what came before from what came after.

Hey @vadim , @benjamin

Just lost audio endpoint, lokal time 11:20 track "La Crosse by Pat Metheny. I will not reboot now to see how long it takes before the 218 is lost again.

When it happened I was just listening to music and not using any of the remotes.

Sunday 23.

Music stopped at local time 12:45 and track was "The struggle of the Turtle Jean Luc Ponty, I didn’t manage to see if the 218 was lost or that music just stopped. I think the 218 was lost because when the system was ready to play again the next track was up for play. This is the behavior when the 218 is lost and comes back again. Also this time time just listening and not playing with the remotes.

I’m going out for work and will not reboot the server. Let’s see how long it lasts before breaking down.

Back home playing some music and endpoint lost at local time 23:42 track 32 in the shade by Jammin’ Unit. This time it didn’t jump to next track.

Monday 24.

Local Time 23:30 and track was RHCP " Under the Bridge " endpoint lost and next track showed up when 218 was back.

Still no time for rebooting

Petter

Hey @vadim , @benjamin

New update.

Today, Tuesday 25 local time 09:17, audio endpoint was lost and the track was " The doors of Perception with Dave Pike. It happened trying to open the Homepage in the iPad remote app. First came the jellyfish and after a short time music stopped and 218 was lost. When it returned next track in queue was ready to play.

Now I will reboot.

Petter

Hi @BergeP,

Thank you for the update.

To keep you informed, here’s what our team is doing with these reports:

This database, for better or worse, is triggering some edge-case performance and memory management problems with Roon Server. That’s not your fault, and you shouldn’t have to change anything about the makeup of your library or your listening habits. The good news is that this positions us to isolate what’s wrong and fix it. What appears as a single set of symptoms (disconnect and freezing) is likely a constellation of factors that, when combined, trigger a memory spike that is often unrecoverable for your server. It’s something we’ll improve incrementally; slowly, then hopefully all at once.

First, we have verbose diagnostics enabled, targeting memory consumption for Roon Server. This digs deeper into the actual background work performed by the server to provide granular detail about the cause of memory spikes.

We’re gathering multiple reports to build a detailed picture of the server’s performance over time. This isn’t simply a passive report pipeline, because we’re actively generating incremental fixes for anything we uncover and adding these to upcoming Roon releases.

We will keep you posted as this effort progresses. Thank you again for your patience.

Hi @connor ,

Shall I keep on logging what is happening on my end?

Hey @BergeP,

Our team has everything they need for now, all you need to do is continue to use Roon as you normally would (with the memory-related hiccups, unfortunately) and we should be able to capture everything needed.

If that changes, though, we’ll ping you here directly to inquire further. Thanks again for your long-standing patience throughout this whole situation. :folded_hands:

@benjamin every day :folded_hands:t5:

If I may, I would do something about the Homepage. It’s too much information and different content. That is the part of my remotes where the jellyfish always shows up and stays longer and longer before anything happens. This is also the page, when trying to open, the system crashes. Please have some on / off button where each of us can decide what to see or spread out the content on different pages. For me I seldom go below “New Releases for Me”.

Keep up the good work.

Hey @BergeP,

I’d share your thoughts and ideas over in the feature request category, where others from the community can upvote and show our developers what users want in future updates: