Hi guys. Looking for some advice in regards to using the RoonARC app on an Android-based DAP.
I am currently using an iPhone 16 Pro Max + DAC and noticed that I get bit-perfect playback without down-sampling. That’s my goal as I have a server full of music, a lot of which, is Hi-Res up to 24 bit / 192 kHz. Sometimes I just connect via USB-C directly to my iPad with AirPods Max (max’s out at 24 bit / 48 kHz). Not bad…the headphones are descent but I have IEM’s that I’d rather use if I have more resolution available.
It’s kind of comical putting a phone in my pocket with cables galore along with a DAC dongle. I know a lot of people think DAP’s are obsolete, but I just weighed the gadgets at 1 lb. Are you kidding me?! I might as well go with a DAP and keep my pocket less stuffed. I was considering the smaller Astell&Kern SP3000M or something like the Ibasso DX260 MKII…maybe even the DX340.
Spent a lot of time watching videos and reading about DAPS…which are Android based. I understand the Roon ARC and Android end up down-sampling the music. Is that still the case in 2025? I have seen a few forum posts here where high-end DAP’s which are “Roon Ready” may not be Roon ARC ready in terms of bit-perfect playback. If the goal is bit-perfect playback, can this be done on an Android based DAP or phone for that matter? I’m invested in Roon and would like to keep using it. I thought Astell&Kern had a work-around that allowed your music to be played without down-sampling? Do they even have RoonARC white-listed in their approved apps? I’d be interested in a Ibasso DAP such as the DX340, but I know they aren’t Roon Ready or Roon Tested.
Anyhow I’m hoping those that have DAP’s and are RoonARC users can shed a little light on these questions.
Yes its still the case. Roon need to update ARC to just pass the signal on unmolested. No DAPS work bit perfect for all formats as its ARC thats the issue not the DAP itself as Roon/ARC assumes Android devices are fixed using SRC which isnt the case anymore . A number support Roon Ready but this is using Roons SDK and is different to ARC. Whllst different DAP makers all modifty their os to circument SRC the main ones dont need anything special to work, as standard Android apps play bit perfect without any issues at all,none of these are modifed same app on Android phone would let OS use SRC, same app on FiiO DAP it passes on to OS which plays bit perfect.
If one imports hi-res albums into your AK SP 3000 by exporting from your Roon Library into the internal memory or external micro SD card it should allow you to both upsample via DAR and play bit-perfect hi-res without downsampling
Last time I checked, all of the DAPs (I checked) were based around old SoC platforms that already had reached their end of support (stuck on old Android version they were released with for ever). The computing platform seemed to have been viewed as a necessary evil rather than a product feature. The actual purpose for which the product was designed also seemed very clear and limited (playing local music and supporting uPnP/DLNA for home networks) for which, as such, no current computing platform / OS was needed. Streaming was probably more of an afterthought, offered “as is” as long as it worked – without any real promise of performance (not a product feature).
I wouldn’t buy any device that’s sold with outdated OS. Also try to find out in the internet on what platform (SoC) the device is based and how current it is. Roon and supported streaming services seem to be based on current internet and security protocols which need constant updating to work. Without those Roon may cease to work sooner rather than later and users are left with what the devices seem to be designed for (playing local music and supporting uPnP/DLNA for home networks) only.
Long-time Roon user here. ARC not so much. Recently got in the DAP world and have no need for ARC or Roon on it as between local files, 1TB, and Qobuz downloads or stream, oh and Radio Paradise that also supports offline playback…what does ARC do for me except not respect the bypass of the OS audio system?
Current DAPs are using Qualcomm SoC 665 or 680 and Android 13. Performance is fantastic. It’s not a general purpose device like a phone and need not be connected to any network beyond install from PlayStore. Disabling Wifi saves power and can only reduce RF noise.
I have both a iBasso DX180 and DX340. DX180 is fantastic pocketable music maker for IEMs and the DX340 is transportable and legit competes with vastly more expensive and complicated home 2 channel systems. Even has replaceable/swappable AMP of difference designs and batteries for longevity. I believe iBasso has had user replaceable batteries in their DAPs for at least 10 years.
So it sounds like the focus for Roon is currently home audio & servers. It’s all pretty slick, but it seems that the explanation is an external DAC with a phone, or even a DAP with a DAC is the only way to get bit-perfect while using Roon with a portable device (iOS, Android). Adding to that, a DAP can play bit-perfect music, just not with Roon or Roon ARC. Is that a correct statement?
You don’t need Roon for that, do you? Is it easier to use Roon than just use a file copy and paste? I’m heavily invested in my Roon smart-playlists. Is there a way to transfer playlists too?
That’s the impression I’m getting here. The latest version of Android is I think 15. Android 13 is what the newer devices are getting…
So are there fewer updates for Android 13 and the shiny new DAPs?
The iPhone/Android phones with an external DAC is starting to look like the logical, perhaps less messy approach to bit perfect music with compatibility.
Memories of trying to fit a Walkman in my pocket with a few cassette tape rubber-banded to the back. 25 years later, I’m trying to fit a 1 pound iPhone with a DAC rubber-banded to the back. What’s next?! Ahhhh progress. Haha.
You’re right about the convenience Larry. It annoys me when I get several texts while I’m focused on the music. No dongle is nice too.
I started researching Astell&Kern as they were Roon Ready and Roon tested. I don’t know what that means anymore. I think it means that the device can be detected within Roon as a source to control. Roon Ready doesn’t mean Roon ARC compatible.
I was more interested in my server music and Qobuz and playing my Roon Smart-Playlists. If I don’t stick with the phone + DAC dongle approach, then a DAP that runs outside the Roon system is an option too. Have you seen the latest $4000 A&K SP4000? It’s bigger (not smaller), heavier (not lighter) and still offers an old/semi-closed Android system. Ibasso seems to be taking some big leaps forward for feature rich and fairly priced DAC’s.
Phone + DAC is starting to look like the way to go if you want Roon ARC / Roon support. Where are those dam rubber bands?! Haha.
Say…if you attach a small magnet to a DAC, that should work to secure the DAC to a iPhone’s MagSafe, right? Not to charge, just to secure. Would the magnet cause any audio interference? Sure I can use Velcro, but then the MagSafe functionality wouldn’t work anymore.
The dream would be a bit perfect phone (no DAC dongle) or a pocketable DAP that plays Roon and Roon ARC with no down-sampling! I suppose these are good problems to have.
DAPs that are Roon Ready certified such as ones from FiiO and Astel&Kern are Bitperfect with Roon, no DAPs are bit perfect with ARC using their internal DACs. ARC only supports it via an external USB dac and even then it appears to be hit & miss.
I have the FiiO M11 Plus and used it with Roon at home all the time and it worked fabulously. I only used it at home as it has no cellular and you have to tether it seemed pointless too take on journeys only at destinations on WiFi. Lots of other bitperfect options for out of home audio streaming than ARC. I gave up on ARC it wasn’t good enough over cellular reception in the UK. PlexAmp on the other hand is rock stable and is bitperfect. It’s my daily music app for on the go.
Roon Ready uses RAAT (instead of uPnP / DLNA) streaming to make the device a (dumb) audio endpoint / networked playback zone. It should therefore be easy to keep running – even on older hardware / OS (as is the case with most Roon Ready components). It just isn’t for “on-the-go” but only at home (per Roon Labs definition) instead. To overcome that you, would have to make use of a properly configured VPN whose setup would be not supported by Roon Labs though. A VPN may suffer from the same issues / limitations as Roon ARC and streaming services support though, as described above. Roon Tested for DAP’s means if you use the DAP as an USB (connected) DAC (to a Roon capable device). So either a total stationary solution or mobile when you use a phone / tablet as the streamer. This could include Roon ARC support then, but brings you back to phone + DAC basically (just at potentially higher costs of a DAP versus a DAC).
NOTE: Roon isn’t aware of the transport way when you trick a Roon Ready endpoint into your home network using a VPN solution when under way / abroad. You may face frequent interruptions and excessive bandwidth requirements (and costs too) when on a mobile network. Roon ARC is the recommended way to go here if that is (part of) your use case.
So it all comes down to your (primary) use case and how much you are willing to compromise.
To me at least, a DAP is all about its internal music storage and playback for which he should offer ample built-in storage and one, better two, card slots. The network is mainly a convenient way to manage the music stored on it (when at home). Like a walkman was about playing cassettes – and not sending an analog line-in signal to its phones out(put). This still seem to be the use case those devices got designed for from the engineers – all else just there as an afterthought to please the marketing department and appeal to more (unaware) customers.
If my use case would be often listening while I’m on the road (on foot, in car, train, boat, …), I would go for a streaming subscription and use the streaming companies app on my phone. Because I don’t think I would have much use for the (more) advanced metadata the Roon app provides (over the app of a streaming provider) on the road and transporting the bits is a base requirement for any feasible solution (so no advantage for Roon). To de-clutter the setup I would even use a Bluetooth headphone. I would not have any qualms about sound quality because of the constant noise while on the road anyway and the right solution may even offer ANC and microphones so you can answer calls if needed. A phone and a small portable DAC may also do but you usually miss the headset (answering calls) option and power (time between recharging) may become a restricting factor too.
If I’m chasing SQ while staying in Hotel rooms, vacancy domiciles, a friends home, other places with WiFi for free/cheap I would go the phone/laptop + DAC route, transporting the clunky stuff in the luggage.
Ok thanks for that explanation Crystal. So IF I bought that A&K SP3000M, it would work with Roon while at home. On the road (I’m a pilot so I’m on the road a lot), Roon and Roon ARC won’t work without a USB DAC dongle. Right?
I should be able to install my music onto the sp3000m main storage (256gb) and use A&K’s music player app to play bit-perfect music without a USB DAC while away from home. Right? On a DAP such as A&K, I should also be able to put music not just on the main storage, but the microSD card too. So can Roon (at home) play music from other than the DAP’s main storage? I know A&K can do that but I’m interested if Roon has some additional limits that I’m not yet aware.
The reason I like ARC, is it preserves my Roon Smart-Playlists. Is there a way to share those Roon playlists with the A&K DAP, or would I have to rebuild them in A&K’s music player? Does A&K have Smart Playlists in their music player?
Ha. Jack I have to admit I thought of the VPN route, but I was having a lot of issues accessing my server at HOME. I wasn’t even trying to spoof my location….yet. I have since removed all VPNs as they were creating more problems than they were solving.
True that Jack. I have a Qobuz streaming service. I listen to music when my company puts me on an airline to go get an airplane. So as a passenger, that’s really when I intently listen to music. I can download before getting on a flight, or better yet I already have my music stored on the iPhone currently (I have a lot of storage space) or stored on a DAP if I buy one. Bluetooth is ok for casual listening like at the gym, but when I have to sit for 4-10 hours, that’s when I like to pull out the audio gear…or watch a movie.
Thank you Jack…you have a lot of thought in your posts. Much appreciated to all that have included their thoughts too!
Right now I’m leaning 80% into the iPhone/iPad + DAC route, but I want to understand what A&K SP3000M, or another DAP handles smart-playlists. Can they be transferred to A&K’s branded music player, or do you have load and rebuild all those playlists? Does A&K even have smart-playlists? I like how Roon, like Apple Music, lets me update my playlists. This song is annoying me…let me unfavorite out of this particular playlist and Roon, or Apple Music, updates everywhere, on all my devices with Roon. That’s pretty damn convenient.
Good question Norman. I have tried ARC and Roon on iPad to see if there was a way to export a playlist. I have an option to “move” a playlist but that doesn’t seem to be a share or send option on either app.