When I search for “Beethoven Symphony 2” I get an unacceptable result for the top result: (I expect the composition)
and in the first set of compositions offered: (none of them are for the composition)
and only 4 of the first 6 albums offered match acceptably:
This is not an obscure, tricky, ambiguous or esoteric search. “Beethoven Symphony 6” works fine and as I would expect.
Results are vastly different here in Germany with local and Qobuz content
clicking the first in above list gives
and then scrolling down ab bit I see
Couldn’t be any more different!
I’m curious as to what causes that - @support?
The search drop down I get is completely wide of the mark. I have Qobuz too, and possibly half a dozen or more versions of Beethoven Symphony 2 in my own library.
Would be good to get an answer from @support. It’s not the only search fail of that type I have posted about since 880.
I’d recommend to upload your logs to speed up response…
That thread was initiated by Brian whose post included a statement
“will be able to iterate with the community more rapidly as feedback comes in”
I posted in that thread three weeks ago that I was getting poor results with a similar search to the one I have.instanced in this current thread, but I haven’t had any response. Indeed I’d forgotten I’d posted there as it has been so long. I’ve provided decent, considered, evidenced feedback, including praise as well examples of failure. I would just like for Roon to “iterate with the community more rapidly” as promised. Hence this post.
Have all of you checked the setting of the “Only complete recordings” switch ?
What switch? I see no such switch.
BTW- I get similar results. For some of the Beethoven symphonies my first results are other Beethoven works, like piano Sonatas. For other Symphonies the correct results is either the first one or one of the first ones.
This is definitely something to be improved. A common search like that for something in the library should always give the right result.
Have you checked how this search works? The “Only complete recordings” switch is only relevant in the compositions view. To get to that view you have to find the composition. The point of my post was that Roon does not find the composition in the first place.
Thanks for corroborating. I get excellent results from symphony 5 up, but below that get sonatas, or piano concertos.
I just don’t understand what effects the different search results we are getting?
from which site of roon did you start your query?
If you want to find a special work, like “Beethoven Symphony No. 2”, please start from the page “compositions”. Here you can use filters to find what ever you want.
For example: Composer = “Schubert” + Compositions = “Symph” (all symphonies)
OR Composition = “C minor” = all pieces in c minor
OR Form = “Concerto” + Period = “Post-Romantic” + Composition = “Cello”
You have to know, that on the “HOME” page the query is searching high and low. Therefore Roon offers results for a lot of categories like “Artists”, “Albums”,“Tracks”, “Genres” and Live Radio, too.
All results of a retrieval on HOME are not (!) specific.
So, if you combine more items in your search string, then the connection of these items is similar to OR - variable - and not exclusively AND !!
The so-called “Top result” on HOME is something like an offer of the “AI algorithm”. It can be an unforeseeable result. It is the same category like “Top Performers” or “Top Conductors” on other pages. In each case the results come from the AI algorithm and look like a miracle sometimes.
If your search is specific please start from the pages “Artists” / “Tracks” / “Composers” / “Compositions”;
If you want to see, what you can get from all fields of your library, then you can use the (unspecific) filter on the HOME page and you should take potluck. (for example try “Norwegian”)
Hi @le_rob, thank you for your input. Unfortunately you do not seem to have read my post. As you can see from it, I was using the search box at the the top right hand of the screen. The alternative strategy you propose is not generally useful because I am a Qobuz user, and your strategy would only search my library. Plus it doesn’t find the composition, it just plays performances in my library. Plus it is tedious for a simple search of this nature. Plus there’s no good reason why a search in the search box shouldn’t work.“Beethoven Symphony 5” works fine, “Beethoven Symphony 2” doesn’t.
@jez has been around long enough to know these techniques, he is specifically referring to the use of the search box as a quick way to get to a work.
Roon has many ways of “skinning a cat” . The ongoing work on the search engine has neeed examples of where the current engine fails
It’s a long saga
Sure, I have read your post and I used the search box at the top right hand of the screen, too. With this method I am getting similar results as you, althoug I have more than 20 recordings of this composition in my library.
One day it looks like this
On another day like this
There are other examples: Searching for “Haydn Symphony 41”
Searching for “Haydn Symphony 12”
I know realy a lot of these examples. But you are right, more often the results of the search are ok .
My conclusion is: the retrieval with the magnifying glass does not use the Boolean operation AND.
Recommandation: We should write a feature request. Roon should give us the option to start an EXACT search or to set a “STRIKT” filter.
I have attached some more examples to the same problem.
All the issues result from Roon’s algorithm for the function of searching. Roon considers that most of the users are not able or do not want to operate with boolean operation at the retrieval. Therefore and for some other reasons Roon works with an algorithm.
Every algorithm is only as good as the used material. Crowd sourcing of material in classical music is very problematic, because there are no standards in the music industry.
I think, the search engine would do a better job, if Roon would offer the option for searching “striktly” or “not strictly” (with boolean operators “AND” / “OR”)
I opened a feature request under
Please, would you be so kind to support it.
Hi, thanks for corroborating my results and producing other similar examples. I am afraid though that I couldn’t in all conscience support your request for Boolean operators to fix this issue, as I don’t think the lack of boolean operators is the source of the problem. “Beethoven Symphony 2” does not give satisfactory results, but “Beethoven Symphony 6” does, and there are several similar examples where a different Symphony or Concerto digit can unduly affect the quality of the results. I bet there is a relatively simple solution, if anyone is working the problem. These kind of searches have got a lot better - in the past the composer could be wrong! - things just need a little more work.
The Boolean search request has been made several times and with no response from Roon. Search the community for Boolean, I am sure you’ll find the threads related to this.
The good news is that Roon has employed a search specialist to spearhead improvements.
Clearly the search algorithm is flawed , keeping hammering away with examples that simply repeat the same shortfall will become progressively counter productive. The specialist has only been on board a few weeks (?) so my suggestion would be to provide him with a diverse a set of scenarios as we can but to allow him space to work rather than trying to answer the “same old error”
If you want to get to specific composition there are at least 2 sure fire ways that do not get tangled up with Search
Composition view, and set the appropriate filters
Composer view > Compositions > Apply a filter say “symph”
Both these are accurate and negate search. You will be guaranteed to get where you want.
I am not defending the search engine , but there are far better ways of skinning the cat