Search is broken, it is indefensible

Came right up for me

Good grief - this isn’t rocket science, and we’ve understood and been implementing sophisticated search algorithms since the early 90s.

Many of the suggestions you make don’t apply to the issues with search that people have documented. For example, searching your own local albums manually will not help someone trying to find an album or a composition when they have Qobuz or Tidal. And although people have raised the issue of Roon’s sensitivity to spelling as a separate issue, we are all aware that, as Roon currently stands, searches need to be correctly spelt. So you can take that as read. And it is clear from the screenshots that spelling is rarely the reason that some searches give less than ideal results.

So can I ask you, which of the many disappointing searches documented here have you tried? And do your results agree or disagree with the poster? Hopefully that might reveal something useful too.

1 Like

I’ve decided to drop Roon when my sub ends because I’m done waiting for them to grasp the concept of search.

This thread proves to me that they never will develop a working search function. Their expert asks the OP if a different search term (probably a track on the album in question) yields any result, which begs the question of how in Pete’s name do they build their local index and how is it possible that it has taken them so long to figure out that there is a problem with their indexing of the local DB?

From @brian 's post in that other thread it seems that they don’t merge the local and streaming indexes before a search operation but that they run separate routines. That flies in the face of every accepted practice.

After years of patiently and from time to time frustratedly explaining the basics of search and retrieval to people who think they can be wizards by using their sense of smell, I give up.

Wake me up if they ever make a go go of it. If that blue monday ever comes along, I’ll probably see the smoke on the water.

1 Like

It’s an interesting choice for a deal breaker. For most people it seems price is the deal breaker. Or poor network performance. For myself, I see Roon’s search as a kind of challenge. Actually all of Roon is somewhat of a challenge :wink:. Trying to figure out the newest workaround to make the thing work the way I want it to. Search is no different with Roon. It’s not perfect, but it can be made to work with patience and imagination. Is that a deal breaker for some? I guess it is.

1 Like

Love train by Maghan Trainor? It come up on my Roon.

That truly seems to be the problem, which is a bit sad. Seems like for years many people have been fiddling (programming) with Roon and it’s indexes and search. Only now it seems that someone actually has indexes and search in his job description and is trying to fix stuff. A bit late , but I guess better late than never. Seems like it is simply loads of problems that come together.
It needs to be streamlined. Focus in albums uses yet another index than search, this is why results are good in one and ridiculous in the other.
Another trouble of Roon is the high Internet traffic it causes, which also makes it slow, if your route via isp or dns is not perfect.

I can have Roon working okay, then go to bed and the next morning it is a completely different experience. Happens a lot lately. Goes from ok to horrible. Without changing anything. Then suddenly better. Meanwhile all audio and video streaming services are extremely fast in search and streams are perfect. Wh does this only hit Roon?!? Sorry for the OT.

It just seems that Roon has become a bit of a giant monster, maybe because of too many different cooks in the past years.

This is a personal physical library search problem, stating that the album title was found on Qobuz , Tidal does not help. The problem is about a local library. I really cannot understand why this is so difficult to comprehend.

Roon search for streaming and local is sadly not the same.
Giving alternate ways to be able to find an album in Roon via albums, focus etc. Is very kind indeed.
But this thread is about being able to find an album after putting in the 100% correct album title in search.
This problem exists, we can all pretend it does not - but that does not make it go away.

2 Likes

I’m not quite so irate - but I have said many times recently- search has become slower since the last upgrade. I did a search a short while ago for ‘nutcracker’ 2.5 mins and it did not find the 3 versions on my nas

The search can not be “made to work” by anyone but Roon. Sure when the search results disappoint you can try a few workarounds, if you have the patience and some intuitions, and you may find what you reasonably expected to find in the first place, but “make it work” you can not. It’s a lot better than it was; still has a way to go.

1 Like

My suggestions are specifically aimed at identifying why a search term on a local album does not appear to work for the original poster.
The poster has made it quite clear that this relates to a local album - one that he has ripped and placed in his library - Any of the searches which link to Qobuz or Tidal are irrelevant at this point.

(from above)
Q “can you be specific about which “Love Train” you are trying to find? You say “i have one album called that”… Is it a Tidal/Qobuz release that’s in your library? Is it a local file?”
A “Local file, I don’t use streaming services.”
and
Q “Searching for ‘Love Train’ I see quite a lot albums being returned. You still have not made clear what exactly you are searching for. You’re nor being precise, and it seems that you don’t wish being helped nor being proved wrong. You’re venting frustration and as far as that, it’s ok with me.”
A “I searched my library using the words “Love Train” for the album called “Love Train”. I don’t know how I can be any clearer with Roon, or with you.”
A “Perhaps because I have no other albums called Love Train? I have one album called that, I searched that exact phrase, it should appear.”
and
A:“I don’t really understand why the artist matters. For the record, I couldn’t remember the artist name, which was why I find this so egregious.”

You could be clearer by specifying the album and the album artist, if you cannot remember then why not search your collection using whatever tool you were using before using Roon. I think it has been repeated above but it seems there is a misunderstanding on how you think Roon works. When albums are added to Roon it tries to identify them, and when it does identify them it associates metadata with the album, this may not be exactly the same as the original metadata that came with the file so hence no match if Roon hasnt identified this album as Love Train., Maybe the album has not been identified at all, maybe your album didn’t actually have any metadata to help with matching, and you could only identify it because it is stored in a folder called Love Train.

It would be good to get to the bottom of this problem but it is going to require some effort from yourself, yo really need to locate the files and see what the existing metadata is and whether it has been identified by Roon. If you can identify the folder where the files are could use run a SongKong Status Report over it to find out exactly what current metadata the files have (this doesn’t require any license purchase)

I think Roon should have two Search functions, one called “Search Library” which searches local and streaming things added to the library (favorited online for example). The second could be called “Explore Online” which only searches streaming services. Each search could be highly tuned to the user expectations and content.

1 Like

“Search Library” which searches local

for the local search functionality, I go to the My Artists, Albums or Tracks section (depending on what I am looking for) and then use the filter feature. It’s very fast and usually works nicely. Any reason that won’t work for you?

more specifically, I am talking about the small text box here on the right

If you scroll up, the filter has been mentioned many times. Roon is attempting to make a Search function that searches Library AND non-library Streaming services and blends the two together making the Search (not the filter) unsatisfying to everyone (from mildly to majorly unsatisfying). Saying “some other function works” does not help the conversation.

I was suggesting a change that would have two functions that worked better, AND set people’s expectations better. Most people know if they are searching for something IN their Library vs. searching for something new, that is my unscientific hunch.

fair, I haven’t read the whole thread. Just thought you may not be aware of this filter feature (I wasn’t until recently) and it would solve your use case.

1 Like

I am getting confused, I have around 8000 albums , 50% classical and I can get to any work/album I want to listen by the appropriate use of the search tool, the composition view, the composer view or the filter tool on each of the options

What is so hard, do we wish to be spoon fed or to better understand the software we are using

Maybe my desire is to “use” rather than find fault

End of Rant , I’m off to skin a cat :smiling_imp::smiling_imp::smiling_imp:

2 Likes

I once saw a post alluding to a thread where you can add your broken search scenarios. The idea was that Roon could use the diverse set of scenarios for testing purposes. Does it exist? I have many to add. Can someone point me to it.

After 20+ years of designing UX for consumer products at Microsoft, etc I can confidently say that Search in Roon is broken. It does not meet user expectations for a large percentage of its user base. It is one of the top 3 (with playing and cataloguing) scenarios in Roon and needs to just work. Filtering and Focus are both powerful but secondary scenarios.

Any time a software user has to bend their intentions, expectations and actions to accommodate for vagaries of engineering is a usability fail.

I understand that a federated search is a hard thing to do. That said, it should be -the- top priority fix for Roon. New features like valence seem like a insult when search is so messed up.

5 Likes

Agree completely. I really don’t understand why so many people in this thread try to make it the OP’s fault. No wonder he hasn’t responded in 13 days.

Sorry, Mike, but this comment is uncalled for. Roon’s Search is bad and I can supply two examples of my own. Pointless to do so, however.

3 Likes

I believe this is the thread you are asking about. However, it is closed.