Roon 1.7 downloaded today. Roon core is on Innuos Zenith Mk3 server. Controlled from Roon App on a Mac Mini, also new 1.7 version as of today
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Network: ethernet goes from router extender into Innuos Zenith Mk3 server. The Innuos servers are Linux-based. Then ethernet from the Innuos to DAC (Meridian UltraDAC). Innuos has Roon core. DAC is Roon endpoint. For MQA, DAC does decoding and rendering, Innuos operates as pass-through. Have tried various ethernet cables and filters, totally unrelated, happens with all of them.
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Hi @noris,
I spent all day troubleshooting this and have isolated what appears to be occuring. I will answer your questions first though.
a) The Router (in a different room) is a Verizon Fios Quantum Gateway, and the Router Extender feeding the audio system is a Verizon Fios Network Extender, rebranded from Actiontec.
b) When sent to the Mac Mini zone, playback is fine, no skipping. But that’s as expected considering what I think happens, below (Mac Mini has no MQA capability).
This is what I’m finding: I haven’t been able to detect skipping problems as long as the stream is 44.1kHz/16b non-MQA. Also no problems when Roon streams non-MQA data from internal storage, whether 44.1kHz or 96kHz/24b.
I observe skipping, both momentary and skipping ahead to the next track, for all MQA files at all (packed) data rates. This is true both when the Innuos player is configured in pass-through mode and when it’s configured to decode, with the Meridian just rendering. It’s also true whether the output to the DAC is ethernet (either pass-through or core-decoding) or USB (for core-decoding).
In other words, the 1.7 build appears to have broken MQA handling, buffering (?), or packing.
This was a good test to run, this has some useful findings.
I wonder if the behavior is the same for the Mac Mini when it’s hosting the Roon Core.
I realize you have done a good amount of troubleshooting here, but if I can please ask you to make a Backup of your current database and then switch over to the Mac Mini as a Core, this would provide a useful data point and help eliminate the Zenith as being a source the issue.
You can do this by going to Settings -> General -> Disconnect on your Mac Mini and when prompted, choose the “Use this PC as a Core” option.
If the behavior occurs on the Mac Mini when hosting the Roon Core, please provide a timestamp of occurrence as that would be of interest. Thanks!
Sorry, can you explain? The Mac Mini runs Roon Remote, which is the only downloadable software for iOS. It doesn’t have core capabilities. If I do as you say, and check settings->general->disconnect on the Mini, it lists the Innuos as the only available core. There is no prompt to “use this PC as core”, even if the Mini is selected as current zone. I’m not sure how there can be, since there is no option for downloading core software to the mini? A core can be downloaded to my MacBook Pro Laptop running OsX, that might work instead?
The Mac Mini (if it is indeed a Mac Mini and not an iPad Mini) should be running macOS, not iOS. Roon apps that you install on a PC have the option to run in “client” mode or “core” mode. If you go to Settings -> General -> Disconnect`, it will then present you with two options, to select an existing Core or to use this PC as a Core, like so:
(Apologies, I said Mac Mini but meant iPad mini.)
This is a short report in the negative. It will take listening much longer to be certain, which I will do tomorrow. However, I set up Roon core (1.7) on the MacBook Pro, playing into a Meridian Explorer 2, which is a portable USB MQA Dac for headphones. The Explorer 2 has lights that indicate MQA decoding. I’ve played an MQA album that reliably fails on the Zenith, and have run it both in pass-through and core-decoding modes on the Mac. So far, no skips at all. The only slight deviation in this set-up is that the MacBook accesses the main router via ethernet, while the Zenith uses the router extender via ethernet. The extender runs via coax, not wireless. That’s presumably irrelevant.
I’ll report back tomorrow if I find anything further, but it looks like the Zenith processing may be involved. FWIW, the MacBook Pro and Zenith each have 4GB memory.
Hi @noris,
I listened to MQA files much of this morning using the 1.7 Roon core on the MacBook Pro, and there are no skips. It’s clearly a totally different pattern from the Zenith. I also placed the Mac into the main audio system in place of the Zenith, keeping all ethernet, USB cables, routers, and Meridian Ultradac the same. The Mac plays fine, the Zenith skips.
So - what happens now? I can contact Innuos, but do they have whatever source code they need from you to debug the new 1.7 release? I see numerous reports of this type of skipping here over the last few days, many of them to do with Qobuz. But at least the nature of these problems might be becoming clear to your team. Do you communicate with manufacturers supporting Roon?
I previously reported skipping problems with Tidal under the thread “Serious problems with Tidal streaming in Roon 1.7”. My system details are listed there. Skipping, both momentary and skipping to the next track, occurred routinely but only with MQA, not 44.1kHz files. The Roon 1.7 core was installed in an Innuos Zenith Mk3 server. Following the suggestion of your support staff (@noris), I installed 1.7 on a MacBook Pro and replaced the Innuos with that; MacBook Pro played the same files flawlessly.
What I failed to recognize: when I did the Roon install on the MacBook, Tidal had failed to accept my password so I changed it, i.e. re-logged in to Tidal. Going back to the Innuos and reverting Roon core to that, the Tidal password had to be updated there too. The Innuos Zenith is now playing fine, no skips as yet in files that reliably failed (every time) previously. This appears to be solved for the moment, though I’ll report back if anything shows up in long term listening.
