I initially thought the same with regards to the volume being the arbiter of the supplied benefit.
What changed my mind was the accidental discovery of the soundstage improvement that the subs bring at lower volume. I’ll caveat with the fact that Dirac Live Bass Control could be the ultimate deciding factor here, but my discovery came about by having my 510s set to auto on/off.
The auto on/off only brings the sub online when a certain dB threshold in the sub frequency range is met. I haven’t researched what that is yet, but it’s at the low to mid listening volume on the main speakers (certainly under 80dB in room at the listening position) . You hear a relay click from the subs and the blue operational light comes on the rear panel (from my listening spot, I see the blue glow reflecting off the wall behind the subs), and around 2 seconds later as the sub completes its start-up routine and comes fully online, the soundstage from the main speakers seems to lift up vertically in the room and the subs are clearly occupying and supporting the space vacated under the previous main soundstage, fleshing it out and providing a new foundation for the lower mids and up to reside on. Although I describe it as blocks in the soundstage, the resultant experience is not modular and discernible as such; it is a cohesive, homogeneous and rich soundstage.
If I manually turn the subs off at this point the soundstage collapses in comparison. This will be, in part, due to the crossover created by Dirac.
I have tried turning off the Dirac filter to allow my fronts to go full-range again, but this takes time between testing subs with full Dirac LBC and the testing with no subs with Dirac off. To my mind, with probably >90% certainty, full range fronts without subs still seems to have less impact and a smaller soundstage than running full-fat subs with Dirac LBC. It’s worth acknowledging the possibility that whilst it is only a few seconds in switching between scenarios, it could still be enough delay that I can’t say infallibly that this is not just my own cognitive bias coupled with well-documented uncertainty around audible memory.
I use an Arcam AV41 as my pre-amp which is Dirac LBC enabled with the additional licence applied. It feeds my McIntosh monos on FL and FR channels. It also feeds the L & R subs through XLR from the AV41 CH13 & CH 14 outputs.
Right! I did not realized you had the capability. Very nice! I have Dirac full BC, hooked to a Topping DM7 8 channel dac, in preamp mode. My setup is two mains and 4 subs. My only issue is that the Topping is underwhelming as a pre. I wish there was a 8 channel preamp available. Unfortunately I am not aware of one.
Thanks for your response. Sam
I would agree with your observations, in my case though, everything is powered on or off, I don’t use standby.
The soundstage on my system has always been “larger than the room” especially since placing the speakers/subs on the longer wall (contrary to many recommendations & theories that the short wall offers optimum performance).
The loss of an octave of bass when powering the subs down, in my case, overwhelms the effect on the soundstage. Your comments have prompted me to try again with a more critical ear.
That’s my Sunday night sorted.
I can confirm that the A110 is the best integrated home cinema / hi-fi amplifier, on the sound side, the Denon technicians started from the 8500 model that I have by fitting it with more expensive components on the audio side, without any cost constraints, with the aim of getting closer to the PMA 110 hi-fi amplifier that I have since my installation is double HC and hi-fi:
HC part: Denon 8500 HA + Audiophonic Purifi HP S 400 ET power amp for the two columns, Triangle Signature + 4 Monitor Audio Bronze 6G and SVS 3000 micro subwoofer (7-4-1)
Hi-Fi: Denon PMA 110 and Focal Kanta 1
Streamer DAC, I had Rose 250 until now, replaced by Eversolo DMP A6 + Gustard R26
Marantz is a little less neutral and dynamic than Denon, it’s relaxed, slightly more colourful which could be summed up as a velvety warmth, the sound signature of the two brands tends to get closer and closer, one is quite warm, the other more so.
I didn’t buy the AVC 110, as I had its Hi-Fi cousin, the PMA 110.
I too was very sceptical until I heard Dirac LBC on an Arcam that was with a reviewer friend of mine for test.
I also was impressed enough by the Arcam in my system as a Roon endpoint using the inbuilt streamer and dual ESS 9028 DACs that I sold my Lumin T2 off as well. It is that good.
I used to be a dogmatic analogue devotee when it came to the playback chain. I ran a MA352 integrated amp which had no digital functionality at all. I fed the T2 into it via XLR. But now DSP is maturing so fast I realised that I had to reassess my bias.
I recommend it as a viable approach and a potential path for others to investigate.
My system is modest compared to many here but brings much joy.
It’s fundamentally compromised by the speakers having to be on wall brakets to fit in the family lounge, and main speakers and subs are also on shared duty with A/V and SACD 5.1/Atmos playback. Not easy to photo given the space so here’s a diagram instead. I also have a budget system in the garage/gym that punches way above its weight. I’ll not be upgrading any of the main rig until I get a dedicated room. Lets just say the wishlist is long and dynamic!
Volumio and RoPieee both allow me to switch to Spotify for discovering new music.
Nuc i5 16Gb with USB stick full of FLAC, Audioquest and Chord interconnects, NAIM NAC A5 speaker cable, power conditioning.
I changed something in my PC setup today.
My beloved Adam Artist 5 monitors got worthy successors after 12 years.
I still have to get used to the size, but the sound is a wonder.
