SonoreUPnP Bridge (beta)


(Richard Robbins) #313

Does the hardware version of the microrendu impact it’s ability to run the upnp bridge? Does the choice of power supply impact the resulting SQ (assuming one of the recommended power supples is used) ?


(Charles Peterson) #314

I’m currently running Roon via Sonore Bridge to a Naim Muso. Used it previously with a first version Unitiqute with old firmware, no problem. Sometimes have to restart the Bridge but that’s easy. I use a microRendu V1.3 with 2.5 OS attached to a DAC V1 in the office, the Muso for the living room. Note, that you can only run Bridge to one device at a time as far as I know. Sounds great, but have not compared to running by other means (not sure if you even can).


(Jesus Rodriguez) #315

Just update your unit from Apps / Software Manager.


(Jesus Rodriguez) #316

No and no.


(Artferg20) #317

Can the SonoreUPnP bridge be used or pointed towards Uniti Core? Therefore using Core as a player?


(Jesus Rodriguez) #318

Not really sure what that is?


(Artferg20) #319

Hi Jesus,

Core is a ripper server and digital source, once a DAC is connected.

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/uniti-core

Thx


(simon_pepper) #320

I have done, but there was no change in the version releases.


Are these the latest versions, and the ones you have recently revised?
Thanks,
Simon.


(Jesus Rodriguez) #321

If it’s a UPnP/DLNA renderer it should work.


(Jesus Rodriguez) #322

I would have to ask Andrew if it was released on the SE.


(Artferg20) #323

Hi Simon,

Thanks for your feedback. How did it sound? How does it show up on Roon settings?
Thanks


(simon_pepper) #324

Hi, you will still need a Roon Core, the Uniti Core is UPnP Server, with optional local storage and CD ripping capabilities.
The Uniti Atom, Nova and Star are Roon Endpoints for playback. The new NDX2, ND5XS2 and ND555 will also be Roon Ready Endpoints, but not available yet, they were only announced at the Bristol HiFi show.
The Sonore UPnP Bridge works between a Roon Core and a UPnP playback device.
This means your Naim network player can effectively add as a Roon Endpoint, and playback can be managed by a device running Roon Remote, such as an iPad. You then don’t use the Naim App.
However there are some setup challenges, playback limitations, and it is different playback path of your files and therefore subject to a potentially different SQ.
Simon.


(Jesus Rodriguez) #325

Simon says, “…it is different playback path of your files and therefore subject to a potentially different SQ”

Or not…potentially is makes it better. I’m kidding…it doesn’t make it better or worse. Image if that were true then any playback of bit prefect and lossless content would be garbage because your content goes through many playback paths.

Simon says, “However there are some setup challenges, playback limitations…”
I know you are having playback challenges and limitations, but most all people are not.


(simon_pepper) #326

Not true, some of the early adopters of the Uniti Atom, Uniti Nova products are reporting on the Naim forums that they also experiencing that playback as a Roon Endpoint is different and not as good as a direct UPnP based playback path.

Plus as you have seen here on this forum, there is a call for an easy and low-cost method of introducing Roon Endpoint capability, using the UPnP Bridge product, for Naim network players that are not going to be Roon Ready. These Players have no USB input, as they are positioned as ‘Network Players’ and not a DAC, in that they are designed to be Ethernet connected and served by UPnP based server.
So, this would be an easy market for the $169 type product that supported the UPnP Bridge (the one that David O’Higgins has with his NDS) or even the SonicorbiterSE device I have with my NDS.
The microRendu or UltraRendu level are at a pricepoint outside of this requirement, plus if the UPnP Bridge can provide, particularly if Bitperfect playback is identical between these products.

Yes, I still have playback challenges with 24/192 FLAC playback only possible through the USB->S/PDIF path and not through the UPnP Bridge, plus native UPnP playback has noticeably better SQ.
I am sticking with it, however, to see how MQA playback works out in Roon. I would like to undertake this in the SOSE device, but you are not supporting for this product, under 12-months after purchase.
Simon.


(Jesus Rodriguez) #327

Those are two different protocols where one is an endpoint used as an output for a remote player and the other is the player locally. This is not the case we are talking about here. What we are talking about here is the same protocol where your device is the player regardless. Playback this way is identical if you are sending it the same stream and thus indistinguishable. BTW I don’t have to rely on forum speculation because I can measure it.

That was a promotion that is no longer available. Also, we don’t want to continue to offer so many different hardware platforms because it’s to expensive to produce and maintain them.

Simon says, …native UPnP…" Sorry, but that made me laugh:) Either way it’s native UPnP even if you don’t think it is. If it weren’t native UPnP it wouldn’t even be possible to play to your device because it only support that protocol.

MQA in Roon will upsample and you will need to support up to 24/96. Why wait for MQA…you can resample with Roon already.

That is not true…we are providing general support for the SE and it gets updates as needed. It’s just not on the same development path as the microRendu and ultraRendu.


SonicOrbiter SE end-of-life?
(simon_pepper) #328

But Roon Core either communicates through RAAT or operates in Squeezebox emulation mode, neither are UPnP compatible, hence the requirement for a DNLA network player to either be provided with a S/PDIF feed or the LMS–to-UPnP bridge type product, but either is a protocol conversion.

Also I don’t rely on forum speculation or being told that something should sound or behave as Bitperfect, I rely on listening, so when something sounds different from the same source files, it is different.

Your choice, your business, I was just pointing out that there is a market opportunity for a solution you have already offered, at an attractive pricepoint, to a sizeable existing customer base, which is not being served by the manufacturer, as they are only adding Roon capabilities to their new product lines.

I was using ‘native UPnP’ to indict that it was a UPnP feed from a UPnP server, such as Asset, Minim server, Naim’s Unitiserver or Uniti Core. And I believe if you can hear a difference then there is a difference, and refuse to be told that it should be the same.

Upsampling and unfolding MQA is quite different, as I have understood any written by Bob Stewart on the MQA process and the changes in encoding and the decoding processes, DAC profiles etc.
As an MQA licensee you actually have access to the code, so and the ‘inside track’. Have you released your announced MQA support in the SonicorbiterOS 2.6 yet?

That’s great, I look forward to updating this product with the latest updates and releases you have made.

Simon


(Jesus Rodriguez) #329

It’s clear that you refuse to be told anything. However being stubborn will not change the facts. I know you think you hear a difference, but the spectrum is the same and therefore the sound is the same.

You can create imaginary issues where there are none to back up your perception, but unfortunately you don’t understand the way things work and your doing everyone a disservice. The bridge translates commands from the two protocols, but the audio content remains the same.

Based on twisted logic from the previous posts we have to declare that Asset, Minim server, and Naim’s Unitiserver or Uniti Core are detrimental to the sound because the content is going through protocol changes on a computer. Simon says, “And I believe if you can hear a difference then there is a difference, and refuse to be told that it should be the same.” There is the root of the real issue.

You might want to read the MQA article on Computer Audiophile. No I have not released MQA support.

My posts says, “…we are providing general support for the SE and it gets updates as needed.” It does not say that we will update the product with the latest updates and releases we have made.


(simon_pepper) #330

So I have conducted comparison tests, with others, some understanding HiFi and other not, just music fans, and all agreed that there was a difference, all agreed that UPnP playback was better.
The ‘HiFi equipment people’ included a moderator on this forum, a former Studio Sound Engineer, and one a HiFi store retailer, i.e. in the HiFi business - so you are calling them out, in terms of what they hear?
Interesting approach to customer service - insulting your customers.

If you could advise on when the updates you made to the other products will be made available for the SonicorbiterSE, as you are providing ‘General Support’


(Jesus Rodriguez) #331

Call them all out if you want to, but bring proof:) I’m trying to inform you, but you “refuse” to listen. You can refer to the other thread for updates.


(John B) #332

Not wishing to rub salt into any wounds but the latest update to the bridge (1.0.14) improves the one feature that let you know you weren’t using a dedicated solution and that was volume control in Roon to my 8 year old UniQute. The latest update makes the Roon app practically as seamless as the Naim app in running the UniQute.

I’m thrilled with it as an extra to my excellent ultraRendu into a Holo Spring DAC.

.sjb