It’s hard to believe how such an algorithm works. The favorites 3 times in a short sequence.
Let’s see if after every 3 songs 3 gold pieces of Sting will come again. 
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I’ve stopped using it. Unfit for purpose.
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The question with or without you no longer arises. Valence’s choice of music is not perfect, but well suited to the source material.
Yeah there is something majorly wrong there, I wonder would @support like to look at your logs or are they aware of what night be causing this.
.sjb
Thee is a running support thread on this they are monitoring. I would add your findings to it.
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@Sloop_John_B I’m totally relaxed about this problem and stay cheerful because I have so much music to discover with my own or AI intelligence (library, Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify…).
Roon radio can be turned on and off manually. To me, it’s just another attempt at what artificial intelligence can already do on Roon.
Valence is not yet at the EchoNest level, and it will also be difficult to derive the same algorithms from a few thousand people that Spotify derives from half a billion customers. But the Spotify song radios are copied everywhere and it is an automatic learning process that grows more rapidly with the amount of data.
Incidentally, this also applies to Roon’s radio results, which simply select better with 2.7 million songs than if I start a small subset of a few favorites.
With only 3000 own songs, the artificial intelligence probably quickly gets the idea to only scan this field of gold.
@CrystalGipsy Thanks I overlooked this until now as I had taken a short break with Roon and this community.
Out of interest, Roon Radio is still sporadically and randomly not starting.
Sometimes it does then next time it fails. Nothing odd about the failures
Hey @Uwe_Albrecht – @nathan and I have been investigating these issues. Just to confirm:
- Are you using TIDAL, Qobuz, or both?
- Do you have any options enabled for Roon Radio? Such as “Filter Explicit” or “Limit Radio to library” ?
- When you start Radio, what screen are you on and what exactly are you pressing?
- Can you reproduce this at will? If you start Radio right now will these repeats happen consistently?
We’ve done some work on this recently and things seem to have improved for some users, but obviously the selections you’re getting are still not good enough – the information I’ve requested above will help us continue to improve, so let me know the details and we’ll look into this further.
Thanks @Uwe_Albrecht !
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I Use local MP3, local OGG local FLAC, Tidal and Qobuz. No options, no filters, no limits. Pressing nothing, Radio is on and if the queue is empty, Roon-Radio make the next selection.
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Thanks @Uwe_Albrecht – it would be great if you could reproduce this problem one more time.
Just queue up some content you’ve had issues with before, let Radio kick in and play for a bit, and then let @nathan and I know if you’re still getting repeats.
We’re going to look at some diagnostics on our end, so just let us know when the test is complete and we’ll have a deeper look. Thanks again!
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Today:
Red = not played (Roon skipped)
After manuell skipping my Dreams with Corrs are ending without another Roon-Radio-Selection
roon radio for me is well and truly busted, its just a laugh at this stage. I can now guarantee what radio will play next, I never find any new music, its just caught in its own feedback loop.
Roons silence on it is deafening. I can only assume the learning the AI does has sent it down a rabbit hole, it simply does not work.
Because I find it so infuriating I am going to switch it off, lest I get another bout of Genesis, even though consistently every time I hear them I click next track EVERY SINGLE TIME.
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I was literally in this thread gathering feedback over the last 6 hours!
We recently found (and resolved) a bug that could cause “repeats” in Radio, meaning the same song could be played multiple times within a session, and we fixed that issue. That doesn’t mean other bugs don’t exist, and it also doesn’t mean that we don’t intend to improve Radio.
The engineering team and myself are absolutely thinking about how we can improve the algorithm, and the most helpful thing here would be more detailed feedback.
If you’re finding the current selections to be subpar, details like the ones I requested above would be helpful – thanks in advance for the feedback!
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My own experience with radio is that the further I move the seed from what I assume is “mainstream” the better it performs.
So for example starting with some kind of pop/rock or album rock or am rock seed the results are frankly awful. Starting with some less mainstream Indie or Electronic, on the other hand, often now gives good results with no repeats for lengthy periods. Similarly with Classical I can get some good results with a “modern composition” or “sacred traditions” choral seed but disappointing results with a popular Beethoven or Mozart symphony.
These comments apply to recent releases where I assume there has been some tinkering with the radio algorithm going on in the background. However, I still find it to be the case that with what looks like mainstream content, that is probably popular with the older roon demographic, the algorithm will overweight popular plays to the point of repetition. It’s probably not possible to satisfy everybody but for example some of my family members wouldn’t actually mind “field of of gold” on repeat but I would prefer it mixed up with a few surprises (but not too surprising).
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What radio needs is a set of criteria. It could be really simple such as ‘surprise me’, ‘stick to my library’ or what ever. skipping tracks dosnt teach it any thing.
I dont get an issue of songs repeating within a session, my issue is the same songs (Usually the first five or so) will play in the same order from a seed, without fail.
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Yes. I don’t know why roon seems to be philosophically opposed to more user configurability. It is not just radio. It is a fine line, I know, before disappearing down a user-configuration rabbit hole like some other players but there are times when I think it makes sense. I would be over the moon if roon could get radio right with machine learning or whatever else it is using but I wonder if the roon demographic is either large enough or diverse enough to accomplish that level of automation?
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Perhaps in typical Roon fashion the answer is ‘the AI should do such a good job you don’t need it’. Problem is it never did a good enough job and when it broke, nobody at Roon seemed to notice.
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We live in the Twitter age, where everything has to be done very quickly and at a profit of billions.
This is unhealthy for interpersonal relationships and developers are usually not the best communicators, but attentive readers who think and develop in complex contexts without always finding the most flowery words for it. The marketing department is responsible for that.
Unfortunately, the marketing statements in all companies are always much bigger and more powerful than the possible actions of the product developers.
In the end, we are all beneficiaries or victims of our own decision. If you don’t like Roon, you shouldn’t use it. Those who don’t like individual features should be able to turn them off. That is possible with the radio. Whoever is interested in further development should try a lot.
I love Roon, but not without limits. In my case, every year a decision is made as to whether the journey together will continue.
As for the Roon radio, the skin and tagging flexibility, I’m not in the field of gold yet either, but other things are solved in an exemplary and unrivaled way, which makes it attractive for a wide range of customers.
The price and audiophile passion narrow the possible customer group. If you want significantly more customers and the mass market, you need many thousands of employees and a changed marketing concept.