Too Many Failures. Stopping Playback and a Possible Path Forward

[David_Weinberg]

Roon Server Machine

ROCK, NUC8i7BEH, Crucial 8GB Single DDR4 2400 MT/S, Transcend 128GB Nvme PCIe Gen3 X4 MTE110S M.2 SSD Solid State Drive

Networking Gear & Setup Details

Router- Synology RT6600ax, Mesh- Synology MR2200ac, NAS- Synology DS920+

Connected Audio Devices

MacBook Pro, iPhone 13 mini, Chord Mojo2/Poly, Chromecast Audio

Number of Tracks in Library

46,500

Description of Issue

I received the “Too many failures. Stopping playback” in my last few listening sessions. I have tried to debug this and made some progress. I want to post it here to get some feedback and to hopefully close it out.

I live in a 1350 sq ft coop apartment. I annotated the floor plan to help describe my situation. Here is the floor plan where I annotated key hardware locations.

I recently replaced my router and mesh extension. I placed the mesh in the living room at location 1 (in part for better WiFi access on my balcony). I moved it to location 2 in the bedroom for this test. This is typically where I listen to music.

In the first case (at location 1), I would get repeated dropouts and the “too many failures” message to the point of being unlistenable.

In that situation, I rebooted the NAS and the Core, but the dropouts continued.

In the second case, I moved the mesh to location 2 to be closer to my listening chair and avoiding any obstructions with walls, etc. I still got the dropouts.

I don’t think it was as bad, but certainly not listenable. I use the Chord Mojo2 / Poly when listening, but also tried directly from my Mac. Dropouts and the message continued in both cases.

I then rebooted the Core (but not the NAS) and after the reboot, the playback was fine.

It appears that moving mesh helped in the second case as I got satisfactory playback. But both required a Core reboot. So now I’m looking at the Core. It is an Intel NUC8i7BEH that I bought in 2019. I wonder if I need to replace the NUC? Could something else be the culprit so I don’t have to swap out the Core now?

One other point- I was able to listen to Roon ARC without the dropouts, except for the intermittent dropouts that I previously reported and, unfortunately, have learned to accept. None of the Core dropouts (i.e., "Too many failures. Stopping playback”) occurred using Roon ARC.

Thanks for any tips.

David

[Suedkiez (Just a fellow user like you)]

The “too many failures” is nearly always caused by network issues (insufficient bandwidth or too much latency).

In this case it is expected that ARC suffers less from it because ARC is designed to work on less reliable networks (like 5G) and therefore performs more buffering (which it can because ARC does not have to be able to play to multiple zones in sync like regular Roon has to). In addition, ARC may be configured to use lower bandwidth settings even on wifi (its default being CD quality and not hires)

[Wade_Oram]

What are you using for the backhaul connection on the Mesh WiFi system?

Your Chord Mojo2/Poly combination is using a WiFi connection - hopefully to the mesh node at loc 2 - so, if you are also using a WiFi backhaul, then you are putting a lot of demand upon your WiFi network - especially if you are you are using high sample rates and bit depths.

Also, I noticed, that your router is Wifi 6 (802.11ac) capable but your Mesh nodes are using a WiFi 5 (802.11ac) system. This will not be helping in part because 802.11ac supports lower data rates but more significantly, because if does not handle multiple transmitting devices so efficiently.

I you have a long ethernet cable to hand (probably 20m or longer - although you may be able to get away with 10m if you can move your Loc2 mesh repeater close to the bedroom door for the purposes of the experiment), you could try (temporarily) connecting your Mesh node (loc 2) directly to your router such that it is using a wired backhaul connection (The mesh MR2200ac device may need some re-configuring to do this). When doing this, it might also be good idea to (again temporarily) turn off the mesh node at Loc 1 just to be sure that your chord Poly is connecting to the correct node.

Make sure that anyone else in the house is aware before you start trailing network cables across the floor!

If the ethernet cable fixes the issue, then it is indeed the mesh network that is causing the issues.

I’m a little surprised that you need the Mesh WiFi at all in the space that you have illustrated. Have you tried turning off the Mesh Wifi (at both Loc 1 and Loc 2)? Granted, your router position is not ideal for this.

The Chord Poly is only able to use the 2.4GHz Wifi band - so make sure that your mesh system is using the 5GHz band for the backhaul. Keeping the backhaul traffic separated from the device-mesh node traffic is hugely beneficial.

Side note: it’s always worth having a cheap but long ethernet cable to hand so that you can perform the kind of troubleshooting that I have outlined above. I use an Ethernet over Power system for ethernet distribution around my house - but I have a 50m CAT6a cable that I can use to take the EoP system out of the equation when diagnosing network issues.

[Wade_Oram]

Do you have the same issues if you take the Mojo/Poly into the foyer so that it can connect directly to the Router’s WiFi (again it migh be a good idea to power of the mesh nodes to perform this experiment)?

This might be an easier experiment to perform if you don’t have the long ethernet cable mentioned in my previous post.

[noris]

Hi @David_Weinberg ,

@David_Weinberg

I use the Chord Mojo2 / Poly when listening, but also tried directly from my Mac. Dropouts and the message continued in both cases.

Does this mean that you tried “System Output” also had this issue?

@David_Weinberg

NAS- Synology DS920+

What happens if you store your tracks not on the NAS, but rather on a USB drive attached directly to the Server? Does the issue still happen then?

[David_Weinberg]

Hello @Wade_Oram and @noris,

Thanks for your replies and suggestions, and sorry for my delay in circling back. I think the issue is close to resolution. I submitted a Synology support ticket and then some followup phone support with the Synology engineer who had my case.

We determined that placing the mesh router closer to my listening location was key, and getting the right mesh paired with the main router as @Wade_Oram suggested. To that end, I returned the MR2200ac (on the last day I was able to do so) and purchased a second RT6600ax for the mesh. It is arriving this week.

David