Underwhelming bass response in Roon (ref#VBG9KD)

Support
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What’s happening?

· Other

How can we help?

· Hi there.

I’m new to Roon and am impressed. I’m using it as a source for a new pair of KEF LS50 Wireless II. Unfortunately, I’m finding the bass performance oddly underwhelming.

Some details:
•I am not a “bass head” and typically use a flat EQ.
•I listen to a mix of rock and jazz. Not a lot of hip-hop or other bass-heavy genres.
•These are in my living room, which is 10 feet deep x 25 feet wide. They are centered in the room, currently 9 inches from the rear wall. That’s closer than optimal, and should amplify the bass, if anything. The bass response of other speakers at that same location was far more pronounced.
•They’re mounted on a set of KEF speaker stands specifically made for these.
•I’ve tinkered with the limited EQ settings available in KEF’s speaker app, and set them for extra bass extension.
•I also have a pair of KEF LSX II on my desk, set up for near-field listening. These are like the little brothers of the LS50 and are spectacular in every way. Currently, their bass response significantly outperforms the LS50Wii. This makes no sense.

The issue seems limited to Roon. I’ve tried Apple Airplay as well as a headless install of PlexAmp on a Raspberry Pi. Both of those provide the kind of bass I would expect from these speakers, with the latter a high quality source.

Roon has equalizers, but I typically avoid such things and rely upon a flat, unaltered signal. I’ve played around with the MUSE parametric EQ and created a few presets with varying levels of bass adjustments. Still, the bass is kind of anemic. (While we’re on the topic, I see that there are presets for headphones; why not speakers?)

I’d be grateful for any advice you can provide.

Thanks!

Other options

· Other

Describe the issue

Underwhelming bass response

Describe your network setup

Verizon FIO G3100 wireless modem/router + matching wifi extender

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I think anyone who wanted to help here would need a bit more info like what’s the rest of the audio gear, what’s the Roon signal path, and what does underwhelming mean - in which way and compared to what.

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Indeed. Something went wrong with my original post; I’ve just edited it to include details. Thanks!

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Because speakers work in a room and every room is different. Headphones work on heads and ears that are much more similar between different people.

Your whole problem makes limited sense to me, based on the description. Surely, smaller speakers on a desk can have more pronounced bass than larger ones elsewhere, depending on the room response. Which one is more accurate is another matter.

When you compare the same speakers with different apps, and some apps produce more bass than Roon, then either the other apps amplify it with some DSP or Roon deemphasizes it with DSP. Doesn’t seem like there are other possibilities.

Roon provides a signal path graphic telling you what happens in Roon, so please post this as a baseline:

Other than that, check if other apps (or the speakers when used with other apps) enable a setting for DSP you aren’t aware of.

If the signal in Roon is flat and you think the bass isn’t enough then the problem isn’t Roon but more likely the way your speakers work in the room. (Or it’s possible that it’s just accurate and you are used to empathized bass. Not saying that’s the case but it is possible). Close to the wall doesn’t necessarily always lead to pronounced bass. It causes a comb filter effect that can lead to low energy precisely in the listening position.

I’d recommend measuring the room and creating a convolution filter that you can load into Roon for room correction. As you seem to have an iPhone, HouseCurve is a cheap and quick way to get this done:

There is a thread on the forum about it:

However, note that no room correction can fill in bass nulls because the problem with these is that the room acoustics suck out the energy at specific frequencies at specific locations in the room, and trying to fill these nulls leads to amp overload. The only solution for that is playing with speaker placement and listening position (but the good thing is that a few centimeters can make big differences).

I’d first try to get the physical speaker placement and listening position as good as possible,

then make final corrections with DSP like with HouseCurve

1 Like
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I have KEF LS50W rev 1, I added a subwoofer due to room acoustics (odd shape and huge picture window etc). Made a world of difference after doing the subwoofer crawl to find an acceptable spot for the subs placement (limited options due to furniture etc).

As @Suedkiez says, try adjusting the placement of the KEF (move them into corners, farther from the wall, etc).

I had also noticed that if I sat at my desk (along the back wall) as opposed to the “listening” spot (more in in the center of the room) the bass was better (before I added the sub that is). Tweaking the distance and angle from the wall and the “spread” of the KEF helped in my case.

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The room center and close to it is of course usually a victim of standing wave extinction. Moving the listening position out of center to ~40% of length/width is usually better.

Amroc may help, too

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Those KEF speakers do their own DSP. You are using different signal paths into them. It’s quite possible that different signal paths in the speakers have different DSP. For instance, Roon may require that all DSP be in Roon itself, as opposed to in the endpoint, for Roon Ready (otherwise it would be very confusing with two different DSP controls). OTOH, other signal paths may have preset KEF bass-enhancing DSP for whatever reasons. I’ve not kept up with all the variants of the KEF *50 line, but when I owned a pair of the original, passive ones, bass was not their strong suit, which is unsurprising given their size.

As for “but I typically avoid such things and rely upon a flat, unaltered signal,” there’s no such thing with active speakers with their own DSP. You might as well try playing with Roon’s DSP. Yes, they don’t have speaker presets, and that’s simply because there’s no such thing given how different rooms and speaker placements are. In contrast, headphone presets make some sense, given that headphones can be measured on a standard “head,” although even then there is variation (no human head is standard, and headphone amps add their own variations).

3 Likes
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Hello @Louis_Neidorf ,

Can you please share a screenshot of your Signal Path when music is playing?

Does the Roon Airplay option also reproduce the issue?

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Hi @Louis_Neidorf,

We haven’t heard from you, and we’re eager to continue the conversation. Please see @Fernando_Pereira’s post above for some pertinent contextual notes given the particular gear and chain you’ve mentioned.

We’ll need a screenshot of the Signal Path within Roon to proceed from there.

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This thread is now closing due to lack of response and inactivity. If you’re still experiencing issues or have a new problem, submit a new support request here and we’ll respond promptly.