Hello @noris ā many thanks for getting back to me on this!
The modem is also handling routing and handing out IP addresses. As you and @ged_hickman1 and @Rugby all suggested, I am planning to try the DNS server change. However, itās been a while since I last did admin on the modem, and since then, my wonderful ISP seems to have changed modem admin login credentials on me. So Iāll have to get that sorted out with them before I can configure the modem. Will report back once Iāve (hopefully) been able to change DNS servers.
The Qobuz issue does occur on all zones, including ones that are physically connected to the NUC (e.g., a Marantz Pre/Pro, connected via HDMI ā I didnāt list all zones in my initial post, just to simplify). All zones are able to play my local music.
Thanks; will report back as soon as ISP wrangling allowsā¦
Configuring the modem to use DNS servers 8.8.8.8 or 1.1.1.1 did not help with the Qobuz issues on the NUC, not even when turning off all DSP, and not even when playing to a device that is physically connected to the NUC (a Marantz pre/pro connected via HDMI).
In all these cases, the NUC can play my local music just fine.
And in all these cases, the Windows 10 laptop plays not only my local music but also Qobuz seamlessly, when connected in exactly the same ways as the NUC to ethernet and endpoints.
Not sure whatās going on, and quite discouragedā¦ Iām a bit hesitant about the Windows installation idea that @Rugby suggested. @noris, do you have any suggestions other than that? And if Windows 10 install is the only option here (for diagnostics), any pointers on how to do a free install? (A quick web search just now did not yield any clear information.
I suggested Windows because I assumed it was an environment you are familiar with; however, you could always load up a Linux distro like Ubuntu.
As for free, you use the Microsoft tool to create a Windows install which you would create on a USB key. Windows will allow you to install it without activating with a license and will function for 30 60? days. I do it all the time loading up a new PC to verify that the hardware and software works before wasting a license activating it.
[I am somewhat familiar with *using* Windows, but have only done an install once ā for the laptop that has been my dedicated Roon machine ā and the Microsoft tool mention was a useful reminder, thanks.]
Just thought Iād provide an update: Iāve installed Windows 10 on the NUC, and Qobuz is playing just fine to all endpointsā¦
@noris (A) is there anything that can be done to address my issue (Roon Core on ROCK not playing Qobuz) on the ROCK end? Even if this is a DNS issue, is that something that can be addressed in ROCK? (updated network drivers or something? just guessing). If one operating system can negotiate the networking setup, shouldnāt it be possible for an OS that is custom-built for Roon (with its prioritization of streaming services) to be able to negotiate the same network setup on the same hardware?
Sorry if I sound frustrated. But I purchased this $600 NUC because it is specifically listed as supported on the Roon ROCK page. And if Roon Core/ROCK doesnāt have streaming functionality on this NUC (when Roon on every other OS+machine combination Iāve tried does, in the exact same network environment), the $600 is basically a waste for me (and it turns out I canāt return it ā Amazon wonāt accept computer returns). And I already had a Windows machine (a laptop) that was dedicated to Roon ā I wanted to move away from Windows and just have an always-on appliance and not have to deal with Windowsā¦
And a second question for @noris (B) do you have any reason to think that a NUC8i7BEH would handle things better?
Any thoughts on (A) and (B) would be appreciated ā thanks in advance.
Thanks for installing Windows on the NUC and confirming that Qobuz is working as expected on it!
You could try to set up a manual DNS by using Static IP in the ROCK Web UI. Ultimately though, it can be a networking issue that impacts Linux but Windows has additional mitigation in place to prevent.
No, if both are running ROCK, I donāt believe it would make much of a difference.
As for next steps, we can either:
leave Windows on the NUC as it is working (not sure if you used a trial though)
Try to install RoonServer on Ubuntu and verify if Ubuntu has the same issue (as I mentioned, this may only impact Linux).
Re-install ROCK and we can try to troubleshoot ROCK directly, using the Static IP DNS change I mentioned above and by looking at logs.
Please let me know how you would like to proceed, thanks!
Hello @noris ā many thanks for getting back to me!
OK, thatās very helpful for my understanding, thanks.
Wellā¦ right after my previous post, I re-installed ROCK on the NUC10, just in case I had messed up the install the first time, but things were no better with Qobuz. So then, as I had read about many people reporting other Roon+NUC10 problems (at least, through August or so), I went ahead and did acquire a NUC8i7BEH. (Iām hoping I may actually be able to return the NUC10 after all ā long story). I installed ROCK on the NUC8, and Qobuz does appear to be running substantially better than on the NUC10. Not anywhere near as smoothly as with Windows, and Qobuz album art/album info appear not to update well (or appear at all), but most of the time I can at least get the audio streaming. I donāt consider it acceptable (my listening is always tinged with apprehension ā will it keep working? will the album art/info update? ā and that really detracts from the enjoyment), but, clearly better than on the NUC10. The caveat is that I have not tested the two NUCs concurrently, so I canāt rule out other factors contributing to the difference. But if anything, network stability at my location has been worse during the days Iāve used the NUC8 than it was when I was using the NUC10. This is just one anecdotal non-scientific data point, of course, but my strong impression is that the NUC8 works better.
I think I would not want to do the Windows option ā I think Iād rather just use my Windows laptop than try to manage a headless Windows installation (and also pay for a new Windows license).
Before deciding between options 2 and 3, Iād like to wait a few days, if thatās OK. There is an ISP plan upgrade that I have scheduled for later this week, and if it happens and actually changes anything about my internet connection (e.g., faster download speeds, without making anything else worse) maybe that would move the NUC8+ROCK+Qobuz combo into acceptable stability.
If that doesnāt work, I think I might try the STATIC IP DNS change first, before the Ubuntu install.
So I hope itās OK if I get back to you in a few days? ā Thanks again for your help!
AS a side note, I think the āuse the old Windows 7 license keyā actually still works for activating Windows 10. So, if you have an old Win 7 license key you could try using that as a test, of course only if you decide to keep Windows. No use in wasting the activation otherwise.
@Rugby ā thank you ā yes, I think I was vaguely aware of this from looking up info on how to do Miscrosoft Tool installs. I donāt have a Windows 7 machine, though. Oh! I just remembered I think I have a Windows 8 tablet somewhereā¦
Aside from the cost of a license, though, Iāve been shying away from managing a headless Windows install. If you have experience with this: (a) is it perhaps less painful than one might think (specifically, the managing-while-headless aspect)? Iād be using Windows Home, not one of the LTSC or Enterprise versions. (b) any resources you can point me to on how to do this? Iāve only found suggestions to use VNCā¦
@Rugby ā at the end of the day, I want an always-on Roon device. Not comfortable doing that with my Win 10 laptop ā and in any case I have been unable to figure out how to stop the monitor from going to sleep and causing everything to hang ā hence the NUC. If ROCK ends up not working well in my network environment even after help from Roon support, then I will want to look into headless Win10 or Ubuntu. A bit concerned, from what @noris said, that Linux may have networking issues that are handled by Win10.
So, would still appreciate any thoughts on ease of Windows 10 headless management! ā TIA
I had done general searches for āWindows 10 headless adminā, and didnāt find much that was very helpful. But I didnāt think to do Roon-specific searches. Now that Iāve done the latter following your pointer, I see thereās so much more Roon-KB and Community info thatās helpful ā thanks again!
I was waiting on an internet speed upgrade that was supposed to happen last week but ended up not happening. But it has now finally been made today, just a few minutes ago. So now Iāll be testing the NUC again, to see if the internet upgrade simply takes care of the issues.
If not, then I think Iāll next make the static IP change and ask you to monitor logs. Two questions, if thatās OK:
For this option, I guess I have to reserve an IP address in the modem configuration and then assign that in the ROCK web interface ā is that right? I think I can do web search to figure out how to do the modem part, but your confirmation that this is what I need to do would be helpful.
And, should I make the DNS change at the modem level or at the ROCK interface level? ā and should I be trying the same 8.8.8.8 and 1.1.1.1 as before?
You can make the change at the router level, but you can also āforceā it at the ROCK level by setting up the static DNS. I would first try to change it on the router to see if it helps. The DNS servers we suggest are Cloudflare DNS, Quad9 or Google DNS.
Yes, this is correct, I would reserve the IP in the router and then you can try static + the DNS. Please be careful when setting up the static IP as settings the wrong IP can cause you to lose Network access to ROCK. If you do make an error here though, there is a way to reset the network settings by using a USB keyboard + a command.
I have an update ā the internet service speed upgrade that I got installed last week (and perhaps the newer modem that came with it) seems to have moved my NUC8+ROCK+Qobuz into an acceptable level of stability. Iām still testing, so for now will qualify this as a preliminary conclusion!
Interestingly, there is still a very clear difference in the snappiness of Qobuz streaming when using my Windows 10 laptop as Core vs when using the NUC8 as Core. When using the Core on the laptop, Qobuz snaps into the next track instantly, and loads images and album info right away. When using the Core on the NUC8, there is a very definite bit of lag. But so far, the lag on the NUC8 is for me within the acceptable range of performance.
I may still like to do the DNS + Static changes, and ask you to monitor logs. Will get back to you as soon as possible on that (within the next week or so), hope thatās OK. (Iāll make sure not to keep this thread hanging open beyond that!).
[EDIT: I do have one question about Audio Zones on the NUC. In the interests of keeping this thread clean, Iāll start another thread about thatā¦]
Hello @noris ā Just wanted to let you know that the NUC/ROCK Qobuz streaming has been stable enough after my internet speed upgrade that I donāt feel a need to do further diagnostics.
Thanks for all the help!
(Iām messaging you rather than posting to the thread because I checked the āsolutionā box on your last post and then after that I was not able to post a reply in that thread).