Asus RT-Ac88U. Bonn N8 switch. Everythig is wired connected with Audioqest Vodka Ethernetcable
Router-switch-amp.
Nas and Nuc directly wired to router. No VPN
Connected Audio Devices
Dan D’Agostino Progression with build in Roon ready streamer/dac
Number of Tracks in Library
21000
Description of Issue
Having a disbalance in signal using Roon.
What has been done in the meantime:
speakers swapped left right vv
-speaker cables changed
-switch removed from the set and the amplifier connected directly to the router
-ethernet cables put on other ports of the router
-again positioing with speakers
Run Roon from a Nas or a nuc
used a separate Lumin streamer
The sound image is nicely placed in the middle with +3db on the right speaker in Roon, but the signal on the right is distorted. This remains the case with all the mensioned tweaking.
The final solution is to “just” play via the amp’s app. Then the soundstage is perfectly placed.
Quite a few things have become clear to me.
The purchase of a Devialet Expert Pro 220 a few years ago was done in combination with a Roon lifetime. At that moment, the soundstage pullig to the left also began.
With the Devialet I was able to adjust the balance quite a bit.
This was not enough for the later bought Progression. Have to adjust in Roon by +3db on the right speaker
Spinning records has always gone well. Soundstage was always in the middle. This made it clearer to me that something is wrong in the digital part of the set.
This was confirmed yesterday.
What could be the cause of the sound disbalance caused by Roon proven to me and some other listeners?
I have no idea what might be causing the imbalance in the first place, but if you are not using any DSP/Muse settings (including turning off your speaker balance correction) in Roon then, assuming you are using the Roon Ready lumin endpoint, you will be getting a bit perfect transport to the lumin which makes it impossible for the issue to reside within Roon.
If you have any DSP other than the 3dB speaker correction going on in Roon, it may be worth looking carefully at that, but otherwise, I would be looking at the Settings for the lumin and your DAC/Amp - but since you have changed DAC/Amp (from Devialet to Progression) the Amp is also unlikely to be the cause so I don’t really have any more ideas to contribute to a proper solution. Have you tried using the Roon Ready endpoint offered by the Progression? Or do you always use the Lumin?
However, as to the distorted signal on the right speaker, this is almost certainly caused by clipping the samples caused by the +3dB applied to the right speaker. You can fix this by setting the right speaker to 0dB and then setting the left speaker to -3dB. Ie. Instead of boosting the right speaker, you can attenuated the left.
With DSP in general, you should be careful to avoid an overall increase in amplitude as seen at any point in the processing chain. If this is unavoidable, or you don’t know where it is coming from (e. g. Externally sourced convolution filters), then you should use the headroom correction in Roon DSP (negative db’s) to attenuate the sample so that boosting them elsewhere does not cause clipping. Headroom correction is always applied before any other option that can affect the amplitude of the samples.
I just borrowed the Lumin to see what happens when using a separate streamer.
Don’t use any settings in Roon besides the +3db to the right speaker to center the soundstage.
So, if you remove the +3dB correction on the right hand speaker, does Roon report a bit perfect processing chain - at least as far as the endpoint audio device (Lumin/Progression - whatever you are currently using)?
What does your processing chain look like in Roon?
With the +3dB removed from the right hand channel, it should look like (ignore the fact that I am using the laptop as an endpoint, that is just for convienience. The important thing is that the source and the endpoint are reporting bit perfect processing [or in this case - absence of processing]):
Edit: This next idea is extremely unlikely to be the cause because I just reread your original post and you said that you had tried swapping speakers left to right and you have tried different speaker cables. I wrote it forgetting that you had made that point.
Do you have a problem with one of your speakers - or one of your speaker cables - most likely the left hand speaker/cable since it is very unlikely for a fault in a passive system to produce a volume increase (gain).
Having said that, a speaker/cable issue would not explain why, as you said was the case, you do not get the issue when you stream to the Progression with the Progression App - it would affect all use of the amplifier/speakers.
I’m afraid I am completely at a loss as to explain the left right imbalance - and in particular, why it is only present when using Roon, and why the issue has been seen with two different integrated amplifiers.
Hopefully, someone else can jump in with some ideas.
Hi Fietser,
Have you tried to connect the Right output of your amp to the Left speaker and visa versa?
This test have to be done with no compensation in Roon (both chanels on OdB).
What is the result?
Do you then still have a lower output on the Right speaker? Or is now the Left speaker having a lower output.
Kind regards, Frank.
Have tried a lot but not this one. However the problem also occurred with my Devialet. I’ve got the same amp as demo’t at the shop. The problem wasn’t heard there. But I’ll give it a try.
This, to me suggests that the speakers and cables are OK.
Also, as he has just re-iterated, this has occurred with two different integrated amps.
The point of swapping the speakers at the amplifier (and thus mirroring the soundstage) is to determine whether the issue lies with the speakers (or their cabling) or the amplifier.
If the balance changes to ‘to the right’, then it is a problem at the amplifier - which has been changed so that is unlikely.
if the balance remains ‘to the left’, then the problem is with the speaker cables or the speakers (or any crossover network associated with the speakers). But if this was the case, I don’t understand why the issue is not seen with the turntable or when streaming directly to the AMP with the Progression App.
Usually, left right imbalance is caused by faulty hardware with an analog component - DAC, amp, speaker / blown tweeter, or even cable. It cannot be caused by Roon without DSP enabled, and it cannot be caused by Lumin digital output (Lumin does not have left right balance adjustment for digital output, and is only possible for analog output for some of the newer models with built-in DAC).
However, if you replaced / swapped all hardware and still got the same problem, your speaker position is wrong for your room. For some rooms, you will have to place the speakers in unusual angles to compensate for the room - they will not look symmetric at all, unlike the regular triangular left speaker - right speaker - listener usually seen in HiFi photos.
What I found to be tremendously useful is using a speaker position calibration track. The track I used plays a percussive sound at 9 equally spaced points from left to right, with point 2, 5, 8 at the left speaker, phantom center, and right speaker when you place the speakers correctly.
The fact that the disbalance doesn’t appear by spinning records was explained by my dealer saying channel separation isn’t as good as in the digital domain.
Placement of the speakers is tried in several positions as in toe-in, toe-out no toe. No luck. Could placement make out 3db?
It’s something the dealer mentioned aswell. Didn’t by buy them at his shop.
I can see visually why you have speaker imbalance in this photo. You left speaker - left wall and right speaker - right wall distances are very different, and have a bunch of stuff on the right hand side to reflect sound, very near to the right speaker. In fact your room imbalance is very similar to mine.
Unfortunately you need to try toe-in/out (by a few angular degrees each time) and moving each of your speaker closer/farther to the listening position individually (by 1 cm each time), and get a feeling of how that change moves the phantom center. This needs to be repeated countless times.
The CD I used was Chinese, so I think it would be less useful than it should. I assume there must be something equivalent in the Western world.
