I disagree.
What is being discussed here is particular. Just one way out of many to communicate with music. I didn’t know Roon existed until I bought myself LinQ. So Roon could be grateful for that at least. Because I’m not the only one. And the more subscribers - it’s good. Everyone arrives at something in their own way. True?
Roon makes it possible to temporarily not be left without music while am looking for solutions to get out of the situation for myself. And that’s at least something.
In Russian literature there is a wonderful work by Anton Pavlovich Chekhov. “The story of how Ivan Ivanovich quarreled with Ivan Nikiforovich.”
It tells that two neighbors quarreled over an insignificant thing and cannot find a common language in any way. It seems that nothing interferes, but each has its own rightness and wrongness. Everyone has their own thoughts on this matter. And small misunderstandings turn into enmity and complete misunderstanding. It would be possible to find a common language, but after some words or actions it already seems impossible.
Unfortunately, I can state that, unfortunately, everything seems to have already happened at the moment…
Nobody offends anyone anymore and nobody uses anybody’s property. It just took and ended.
No more Roon Ready card in LinQ. Exactly like any Roon card too. And from the LinQ product site, the entire mention of Roon was gone.
Who did win? Nobody.
But this is a fact.
Please do not treat my opinion as a dogma. This is just the opinion of an individual person. This is how it is seen from the outside by a person who is not involved in the depths of the incident.
I’m sorry that this happened. But everything goes away.
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Is the issue here that Aqua wants to use a modular approach in the LinQ offering users flexibility and upgradability?
No, I don’t think so. The issue is LinQ doesn’t want to have to play by Roon’s rules. If they chose to, they could still offer flexibility and upgradability, but it comes with overhead.
As it stands, the flexibility with Roon is now gone.
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Cutting your nose off to spite your face, as the saying goes.
This is a loss / loss / loss situation. Aqua, Roon, Customers
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I think it’s loss/neutral/win, Aqua, Roon, Customers.
In fact, it’s a massive win for future customers of LinQ products (and others too). Roon Ready is about creating a trust that certified products work as best as they can with Roon.
For example, Aqua refused to send us a box with 2 modules. We don’t know why, but we suspect that there is a problem with switching between modules where the music keeps playing and they don’t have a way to fix it. It means a core feature of Roon Ready devices (convenience switching) would not work for any Aqua user that bought the box based on it’s Roon Ready status. This may not affect all users and it may not affect all sold devices, but it does affect a configuration a user is allowed to purchase. We can not have that situation untested or it is our brand that gets damaged. Anyway, this is just a guess. They may have had other reasons, but this is the reason this whole thing broke down.
This type of thing hurts us in the short term, but in the long term, it builds trust in the Roon Ready brand and trust in the products that claim to be Roon Ready. The Roon Ready program came out in 2017. Within 3 years it is massively popular amongst manufacturers. If you don’t see a manufacturer making Roon Ready devices, they are probably in the works already. This happened not because we forced the hands of the manufacturers. If we tried that, they’d tell us to F off. Instead, it comes from the fact that customers kept asking for it because the devices provide a better experience. We certify so many devices, and no one passes on the first try. Everyone cuts corners. But to get that stamp of certification, they get their product in good shape and the customers end up winning.
Also, it’s unclear how many Aqua products have actually been sold to Roon users. It is clear @Mikhail_Khleborodov was sold one. While he has been vocal in many topics about his situation, he’s been the only one. Aqua also made an announcement to their dealers about dropping Roon support. One of those dealers have contacted us already and canceled orders with Aqua. Better now than after the future customer gets screwed.
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Can I ask when you bought the LinQ?
Speculation is harmful in every area of human activity.
I don’t see any problem. And you? I am sure that the third sound card will switch as perfectly as these two.
You see Roon Ready on the display. But this is only because you gave me the opportunity to use it for now. And I, as a developer to, help to understand the problem. I hope I do not violate anything and you will not take away the right that you gave me because of the fact that I worry and try to protect the bundle that I loved.
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I received it around the beginning of August. First I dealt with DLNA and trial version of Roon, and then on August 14, 2020 I bought a Roon 1 year subscription. I liked it so much that I was ready to immediately buy a lifetime version, but then, almost immediately, the events began, which are almost finished today.
You seem to have forgotten about your first trial back in Feb of 2017.
You’ve been grandfathered so you can continue to use this device… but it will eventually have issues and we may end up nixing this whole thing because Aqua has explicitly left the program. We’ve not had this situation before… unsure how we are going to deal with it.
This whole thing sucks for you. Since you mentioned going back to UPnP, I’m happy to refund your money for the Roon subscription. Just contact us at contact@roonlabs.com and point them to this message. They will take care of you.
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I speculated, and stated my speculation clearly. But you’ve proven me right. That product would have failed certification if we got the second module.
When you switch to the UPnP module, Roon playback should stop and not continue. It’s part of the specification of convenience switching. The LinQ is not doing that, it’s failing to tell Roon that the module has been switched away from so Roon keeps streaming/playing/ticking when it shouldn’t. This is exactly the type of behavioral differences between devices that we are striving to eliminate from the market.
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I do not understand what do you mean. I see clear stops on the waveform chart. THAT is visible in residual form - this is the noise of the room. I don’t have perfect silence. I can record sound through the interface directly to the computer - and it will be clear that when switching is perfect silence.
So I don’t understand what you mean.
Playback stops completely and does not continue.
Then the sound is no longer Roon. When on the DLNA display, Audirvana is already playing. And this is completely normal because each of the modules works by itself - only the stream that works for the output switches. Why silence when another player is playing?
If Audirvana was paused, you would not hear any sound when switching to DLNA module.
This is 100 percent logical.
Thank you for your offer. But I’ll try to live as long as possible. In addition, making sharp movements is not very correct from my point of view. Every time I did this, over time I realized that I was wrong.
Nothing ended until it really ended.
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I think you misunderstood convenience switching:
When you switch to the non-Roon module, Roon should pause the audio.
When you switch back to the Roon module, there should be no audio being played. Roon should be paused.
Another way this works is this:
Switch to the UPnP module and play something.
Then go to Roon and pick something to play, and then hit play.
Does the module automatically switch to the Roon module? Or does Roon report that it playing, yet you continue to hear UPnP? It should be switching to the right input. It’s a requirement of certification.
I understand.
There is no “correct” input in LinQ. All inputs are equal.
The one that is pressed now works. Somewhere this is correct. And somewhere terrible and not acceptable.
I understand.
In other words, the input be should сontrolled by turning on the Roon itself?
the logic is this:
When a user hits a play button on an iPad using Roon, the user has shown us intent to hear audio. It’s our goal to make that sound be heard without any other actions. Back in the day, you’d pick up 3 remotes and switch lots of inputs to make the sound come out. This idea of convenience switching means that everything should switch to the right inputs automatically since we have the intent from the user. If you have amplifiers that need to be switched on and air conditioners that need to be turned off, we support that too, all via a very powerful API.
Roon Ready devices are meant to be the best Roon experience. If a manufacturer wants to do something else, they are free to do so… but when it comes to Roon Ready, we set the rules.
This is one of the main features I love about the full roon ready lumin implementations - my wife can just start playing Spotify and roon will stop what it’s playing to that zone…when I start roon again I can kill the Spotify stream without going to het machine and doing so.
Yep same for the implementation on Naim kit. Its effortless no changing inputs. I can be listening to the analogue in and my vinyl press play it switches to Roon input and plays (shame it can’t lift the arm and stop the deck but who knows someone might write an extension for it. ) Works the other way start playing from its upnp or switch to analogue Roon stops playing and I can pick up where I left off later if need be.
Frankly speaking I’m not convinced that the problem is only this, yours banner on the homepage “Roon plays with everything” sound a bit strange from today.
Obviusly I can be wrong.
For sure everything not is show on clear light, and for the finlal users sound like commercial interest in the backstage.
I was interested to LinkQ, I’m a Aqua La scala owner and for sure this situation can change my final decision…