Will Aqua LinQ be Roon Ready? [no]

Tell me please. Is there any hope for LinQ certification in the foreseeable future?

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As I understand it, the LinQ is a reverse-engineered product; i.e. they don’t use the official RAAT SDK. So in my estimation, I think it’ll be a long time, if ever…

If they now use a Roon Bridge type solution it should not require certification. It’ll just come up as visible in Roon. The question is hardware. Does this work on their original Roon capable card?

They cannot resell/repackage Roon Bridge without Roon’s permission.

Assuming that is correct, what do you do about that? Pretty much all Roon can do is refuse to support it.

Cool!
The offer is amazing. Punish the manufacturer through users.
Simply brilliant.
Isn’t it easier to certify the device and no roon bridge will be needed?
Moreover, a lot of fairly average-sounding devices are certified. But there are problems with the one that sounds much better than many. But how then the calls that all this is being done just so that the end user does not suffer? But in this case, this is exactly what happens. For my part, I am grateful for the status of a developer and the fact that I can continue to use the device, but still this is a temporary measure, and I have to think about the future. Therefore, this whole situation worries me greatly.

@Mikhail_Khleborodov
You cannot certify something that does not qualify or did not apply for certification.
Blaming Roon for this is not fair.

If a device is Roon Ready, it means it has passed the tests to qualify.
The sound quality of a device is not Roon’s concern, although i do not know if Roon evaluates this as this is a subjective issue.

A manufacturer that misleads it’s customer is the manufacturers problem.
Blame the responsible party!

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Why would one need the Aqua LinQ to be Roon Ready ?
What’s the problem with the solution provided by Aqua ?

If they do clean-room reverse engineering, fine (at least in the US, and leaving aside possible patent infringement). If they use licensed products like RoonBridge for their reverse engineering, they are breaking the law. In Roon’s shoes, I would figure out how to block such illegal products from my networks.

Supposed superior Sq of a product has nothing to do with certification nor does cost. Nothing gets certified unless it passes their rigorous tests across a number of criteria that only Roon know and disclose with the vendor, pure and simple. This is a two way street between the manufacturer and Roon. Just sending it in is no guarantee of anything. The device has never been certified so the problem lies with the makers of the LinQ if they want Roon Readiness.

I wonder if it’s more akin to how others have done it using a upnp bridge like Sonores or the LMS one. Reverse engineering RAAT could lead down a messy legal road that’s for sure. Personally at that price I would not be wanting hoaky none approved Roon access.

Remember, if a manufacturer wants it, they just have to ask. We will just give you the SDK to implement it :slight_smile:

You can’t really reverse engineer the protocol. I mean, I guess you could, but it’d stop working whenever want it to.

The protocol changes from time to time, as it is the Roon Core that defines the protocol, not the device. The devices adapt to the new protocol. Think of the thing that the device does as something more like a web browser (which supports many different pages/apps/etc, but only sets up the environment for others to populate). RAAT sets up a framework to do audio playback, but does not actually have code in it to do any real audio or networking. That all comes from the Roon Core.

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How do you know?

  1. Most likely the device is already in the roon office.
  2. I have a device that just requires certification.

We had something from them, but it wasn’t the full device. We asked for the full product with all modules (one part of certification testing is convenience switching). They threw a tantrum and had Fedex come take their box.

Until this device gets full certification, I would not purchase it based on its Roon support. They may be conducting some funny business with unlicensed RoonBridge. Even if it works via RoonBridge or some other mechanism, it may stop working in the future and we have no obligation to keep it working. Buyer beware.

If they are willing to certify this properly, we are happy to take it back. In the meanwhile, I suggest people make a choice between Aqua LinQ or Roon.

@Mikhail_Khleborodov, I’m not sure you want to keep this gear if you want to keep Roon. It might work now, but I wouldn’t trust it. It’s a bad choice to be forced to make, but Aqua did something very bad by selling you a Roon module that wasn’t official sanctioned. … or you can leave Roon too… that’s always the other choice.

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We often detect abuse of RoonBridge often, and turn off for it. Normally it’s no-name Alibaba specials, but we’ve done it to more high profile brands too. There is a free certification program that is available. They should use it.

If Aqua goes in this direction, we will shut it down and they will have swindled their customers.

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September, 9th , we received an official communication from Roon HQ which informs us that starting September 21th the devices without a full Roon certification will no longer work once disabled, that is, they will no longer be usable because it will be not possible to re-enable them.

Regarding this, we must point out that:

  • We started the Roon RAAT program procedure for the LinQ last year, at an advanced stage of the product development.
  • During this whole period, no reminders or special notices were sent to us. We were therefore surprised by such a short deadline set by Roon, and communicated at only 10-12 days to expiration.
  • We should ask ourselves: is it possible that several well-respected manufacturers that have placed non-certified devices on the market are all “offending manufacturers”, as defined by Roon?
    What is surely true is that these offending manufactures have been useful, very useful, when it came to start the Roon business.

This week we received some reports from Roon Staff about the progress of certification:

>"John found that the device only has the Roon Ready card installed. We will need the other cards in order to test the behavior of the device when a customer switches between sources."

>"There are few elements of testing that are exclusive “roon” behavior. We will need to have all of the card options installed in order to begin testing."

>"If the NAA module has not shipped, we can test with just the UPNP for now, but we will need to see the NAA module when it ships.

>When we have the UPNP module, we can follow up and fill you in on the status of the test queue."

Today aqua communicated to Roon Labs its decision to stop the LinQ ongoing certification process at their laboratory.
LinQ therefore will not be a “Roon Ready” product.

Why did aqua make this decision?
This happened following a series of considerations that we briefly summarize below.

Obtaining the “Roon Ready” certification requires that the product conforms to certain technical requirements.

LinQ has already received excellent feedback from customers, various reviews in magazines, online publications, and 3 international Awards.

What we consider an insurmountable obstacle are the constraints that Roon Labs places on the structure and operation of the device.
Adhering to these constraints would mean giving up the concept of total modularity and interchangeability of the various dedicated modules, which represents the uniqueness and the strength point of the LinQ streamer.
Suffice it to say that in case aqua develops a new module, the LinQ certification procedure should be repeated, with the possibility of a negative conclusion.

Modularity and easy upgradeability instead have always been part of aqua’s DNA.

Furthermore, an essential point for us: from a company philosophy point of view, aqua cannot accept that its creativity, and the evolution of its products must be subject to the control of an external body, which has its own objectives and strategies.

aqua will continue the development of LinQ, using the currently available and the future streaming technologies, always with the sole objective of the best results.

Of course, LinQ can always be used with the UPnP modules, HQPlayer NAA and with all future network protocols we are developing for the world of streaming.

Our thinking is that it makes no sense to follow the bureaucratic and static path that Roon has taken.
In fact, the streaming sector is constantly evolving both from the technological point of view and from that of service providers.

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Dear @danny!

I understand that you just decided not to certify the device. By any means.
Because the switch test seems absurd. Why don’t you test the cables that connect the devices? Network cables? Routers? This also affects everything.

99.9 percent of users have one card. And the cards are not connected in any way at all. Aqua has 3 cards out of 4 free slots ready. Maybe there will be more cards… Will you wait for the fourth, fifth, eighth? But it is not there, and without all of them, do you think you cannot certify the Roon card?
What is your full device?
LinQ is essentially a constructor. What you want or what you need - put in there and that’s it. All cards are INDEPENDENT from each other.
You yourself will think about the absurdity of your explanations. Although, I’m sure that you yourself know this.

You try to justify your actions by switching between cards that have nothing to do with you. You are failing to justify your actions. True. Aqua is also not right that it released a new firmware, and did not immediately register the device. But from your side it also looks like an unclean game for any person.

What you are doing is bad for you, for Aqua, and for everyone in general.

I really don’t believe in the adequacy of giving you all the maps for LinQ.

And of course, any user will choose hardware, not software.
So I’m very happy that all of this happened before Roon’s lifetime purchase. Of course I’ll go for the sound and convenience of LinQ. DLNA card to help me.

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Cristian!
I completely agree with you and support your position. I’ll put it less diplomatically than you.
Everything that has happened now seems to be nagging, and not constructive work.

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@Cristian_Anelli – sure, that’s your choice to make. No one is forcing you to become Roon Ready. If you find the process too demanding for your company and product(s), then it’s your own choice to leave the program.

As for communication, the terms you received clearly state the process and set the expectations. If you didn’t understand them, that’s OK. It happens. No big deal. The rules were carefully explained to you by @rob and you decided it wasn’t for you or your company. That’s OK.

The Sept 21 thing should not have affected you at all if you never released anything Roon Ready without being certified. It’s part of the documentation we sent you. No release until certification. The fact that you chose to release/sell products with uncertified status means you broke the rules of Roon Ready, and we caught you breaking those rules. The change on Sept 21 was specifically meant to catch manufacturers breaking the rules. If @Mikhail_Khleborodov bought a unit based on the LinQs Roon Ready support, then he was cheated by Aqua, not by Roon. You broke the rules. We set the rules of Roon and you set the rules of your hardware. You broke our rules by selling him a product that wasn’t Roon Ready, but you represented to him that it was.

If you reconsider Roon Ready support, we will gladly kick off the certification again. If you chose not to, I hope you take into consideration that running RoonBridge is not a workaround available. We will do whatever needed to stop you from distributing our intellectual property without a license to do so. Either you do this the right way, or you don’t do it.

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No problem. We removed all Roon refers from our website: https://www.aquahifi.com/linq.html for to be free from all constraints and for to go in other objectives and strategies.

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