Interesting. Have you tried comparing them?
Considering all the work D&D has put into their RAAT implementation I wouldnât be too sure about that. We will not know until itâs delivered, however. The 8c will probably not support other services directly, in the beginning anyway.
RopieeeXL has most of the extra protocol support youâre mentioning so a pi3/4 with one of the supported HATâs is a good option if youâre price consciousâŚ
@GraemeM - yes @ogs is correct. I am using a U1 mini with my 8Cs and the combo is awesome. If you do have multiple sources a streamer in the setup is helpful. But the key thing is for the streamer to have aes-ebu as an output option so you can can go digital to the 8Cs at 48khz (with Roon doing the sample rate conversion) - which matches the sample rate of the internal dsp tech in the 8Cs. You do not want to go analog into the 8Cs as then you have to many d/a and a/d conversions.
Of course I canât yet compare the sound of the 8Cs with a streamer to Roon native into the 8Cs as that isnât yet available so donât know which would be superior but it would have to be amazing to top my experience with the U1 mini / 8C combo.
Thanks Craig. Did you compare the U1 mini to any other similarly or higher priced streamers?
@GraemeM - Sorry I havenât yet. I do have a Lumin U1 and a Sonore Sig Rendu to compare it to but the latter are all in racks and not easy to swap around. Someday Iâll get to it.
I will say that I donât think you can go wrong with Lumin U1 mini. The build, looks and sound of the unit and is exceptional. The support is as good or better than anything out there. Theyâve got lossless volume control you can access from Roon. They have aes-ebu outs which many donât have which is ideal for the 8Cs. And versus some like the sonore, all updates (major and minor) are over the air and they are constantly updating to fix any issues discovered and adding new features. With sonore (which I really do like BTW â especially with the optical ethernet connection on the Sig Rendu), you have to buy major updates and get it shipped to you on a micro sd card which is less than ideal.
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I would not be so sure about that. I was one of the Roon Beta Tester. I tried various different streamers and played music over ethernet directly to the DD8Cs. At first , I used the Innuos Statement - fantastic streamer ⌠but I was very curious in how a much cheaper innuos would perform. Let just say that the Innuos Zen stayed instead. I was very surpriced over how little difference the streamer made. (in this case a roon Core + streamer ). Because of the 8c´s ethernet input and (soon to be) ROON readyness ⌠I would not spend any money on a streamer/ dac . The implementation with ROON was beautiful. And because of ROON (soon) ready , just get a ROON CORE and you are up and running with a very minimalistic set up - but yet - uber high end sound.
For those of you who are waiting for the ROON software update for the DD8C. Stay calm, it is ABSOLUTELY worth waiting for. Espeacilly when using Convolution filters in ROON (more advanced than the PEQ ) . It was the first time I ever experienced the term " the speakers completely disappeared "
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Ok. Sure. But given that Roon direct support in the 8cs was âimminentâ 15 months ago when I bought mine and D&D have no announced schedule on when it will be complete and released you still might be in for a long wait without a quality streamer. I said you canât go wrong with the Lumin U1 mini and I stand by that statement. Of course nothing in that statement rules out other quality options.
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Hello Craig ,
No I was not comparing the Statement with the Lumin Mini . I was referring to GraemeM ´s "
Are you able to indicate the relative sound quality of roon playing direct to the 8Cs vs playing via a streamer? I would expect that a very high quality third party streamer would sound better than the built in 8C streamer? If so investing in a high end streamer now would not be wasted."
The U1 mini can not be compared to the Statement- it would be unfair. But as you say, 8C is not ROON ready yet, so yes indeed , you need something in between for the moment. I am simply saying that , with the 8Cs ⌠you dont need a statement ⌠the U1 mini will sound amazing as weel. IMHO , an expensive streamer/dac to the 8C is a little wasteâŚ
What I can say - I tried this with friends , and also did some blind testing with firends . We all prefered the ethernet LAN input on the 8C more than AES/EBU and Analog in.
We compared the Aurender N10 - AES/EBU
with the
Innuos Statement + ZEN - ethernet . And the ethernet (ROON) input sounded better to our ears.
- Ethernet
- AES/EBU
- Analog In
All inputs sounds amazing. But Audio Over Ethernet blew all of us away.
I have not heard the 8cs playing ethernet direct from Roon so have no ability to compare and never made any quality statement about this option because of course I canât. My only point was, and still is, that if you are going to hold your breath waiting for native Roon in the 8Cs (which you call âsoon to beâ which is exactly the same status it was15 months ago when I bought mine), youâd be dead so you need a streamer and you should absolutely get one with AES/EBU outs. That narrows the choices quite a bit and given this, you canât go wrong with a U1 mini.
Absolutely , you are right.
I would also go with the U1 mini for the moment then, or something from Matrix element series.
I am just saying , that when the day comes , and ROON becomes a reality. I would not buy any streamer . I would buy a NUC , for ROON CORE use only - and stream directly to ROON end point.
Yup, canât wait for the day when Roon direct becomes a reality⌠If itâs superior Iâd be happy to repurpose my U1 mini with the benefit of over 15 months of happy use with my 8csâŚ
Wow. I wonder why that is? Shared streamer and dac clock?
Would love to hear what Dutch & Dutch would say about that. Probably no comment as manufacturers do not like to comment on others qualities understandably.
In any case itâs a bit of a risk putting all your eggs in the roon basket. If your core went down youâd have no music. An alternative source is still a good idea I would say.
The alternative source is good point @GraemeM.
Iâve been running Roon on a Nucleus+ for almost 2 years with only one issue â and it was a big one - where the Roon server kept rebooting. It took about a week to resolve it working with support. Given this itâs good to have a backup plan and I have 2 options. I have a 2ând Roon server on a Mac which I can spin up as needed. You can transfer the license to/from your primary as needed to do this. If you have a U1 mini, you can use the excellent native Lumin UX to play music from Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify or your local collection although you need a UPNP server for the later (they recommend minim server). With the Lumin UX option, of course you can only play music to that zone so if you have multiple zones the Roon server backup is a better option.
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I believe it has to do with the facts its already in the digital domain.
When it comes to putting all eggs in one basket i agree with you. When streaming audio over ethernet to the DD8C via LAN , you can use the XLR input for something else - an alternative source.
Myself , I stream music nowdays 100%. I link TIDAL , Qobuz , NAS to ROON. ROON keeps everything structured in the most fantastic way. Its probably the best written music platform out there. When implemented right with great hardware , magic.
But ofc, Im my Internet shuts down ⌠No music for me.
@J.D the Genelecâs have gone?
New colour 8Câs in?
Yes, I use Ropieee running on a pi4 with a Hifiberry hat as Roon endpoint and this combo is a very good solution.
Hello,
Nope Genelec 8361A still standing in my livingroom
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Since you were a beta tester for Roon direct on the 8Cs @J.D, I have a question. Does D&Dâs implementation work solely by separate network connections to each speaker, or does it work by network to one speaker and aes/ebu between the speakers so the digital stream goes to the first speaker and then it sends synchronized bits to the 2nd. I think they are doing the former which is very tricky and part of the reason itâs taken so long to release, but Iâve never been sure.
Yep, it must be difficult to synchronize two separate players on a network as would the L and R speakers be were they connected individually. How good is the synchronization between endpoints in the same Roon zone?
Still, this is what D&D intend to do AFAIK. Each speaker has itâs own ethernet connection and L&R will be synced via the network. Not totally unusual. Both Ravenna, Dante, AES67 and others sync multichannel over IP networks in a pro setting. D&D is one of the first to do this for home audio. Quite challenging as they must combine L&R sync with RAAT while complying with Roonâs RAAT spec. I guess one will have to group two 8Câs in Lanspeaker to play to a RAAT pair.
Letâs hope @Martijn_Mensink can step in to confirm this.
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