Genre Discrepancy between Roon Windows App and ARC (ref#TI4YVR)

Riccardo_Sicheri · August 24, 2023, 11:31am

Affected Product

Roon

Roon Issue Category

Interface & Usability

Description of Issue

Hi,

I have come across a problem about a genre discrepancy between Roon Windows app and ARC: I noticed some genres in Roon WIndows app is empty, has no reccomended albums nor artists, while on ARC I see reccomended albums and artists for those same genres.

I also noted this discrepancy in the “Play Now/Start Radio” button.
I have Tidal connected to Roon. I use Roon in my windows laptop (my core) and on my samsung phone with ARC.
Basically I noticed that the “Play Now/Start Radio” button in some genres is not working and I can’t click it, so for example I can’t listen to Roon Radio for a specific genre (this is one of my favourite way to discover music); moreover I noticed that this does not happen in ARC, where I can start Roon Radio for those genres.
Below I’ll list some examples of these issues (these are only limited examples I came across, I haven’t checked everything but I’m sure there’s more):

Genre Asian Traditions: both in my windows Roon app and in ARC app I see plenty of raccomended albums (all from Tidal) and artists and even new releases for “fans of Asian Traditions”, but the “play now” button on top left when I’m on this genre’s page is not clickable, and so I can’t start Roon Radio for this genre either. On the other hand, on my ARC app, on this genre’s page, I do have a “Start radio” button on top left, clickable and working.
Subgenre Central African: same as Asian Traditions; there are plenty of raccomended albums and artists (all from Tidal), both in Roon Windows app and in ARC; in Roon Windows app I can’t use the “play now/start radio” button, while I can use the “strat radio” button in ARC.
Subgenre New Zealand: on Roon Windows app I see only popular stations, no raccomended albums nor artists and naturally the “play now/strat radio” buttton is not clickable; on ARC I see 3 raccomended albums and 1 raccomended artist and the “start radio” button is working.
Subgenre Polynesian: same as New Zealand; on Roon WIndows app I see only radio stations; on ARC I see 3 albums and 4 artists and I can start Roon Radio for this genre.
Even for Oceanic Traditions same issue.

So for the last 2, on Roon Windows app, I see zero albums and artists, while on ARC I see them. Is this normal?

After playing around I noticed that if I add an album to my library for a genre the play now/start radio button becomes clickable, so I tried to add from ARC an album from the New Zealand subgenre and went back to Roon Windows app and saw that I still couldn’t see the Reccomend albums I can see on ARC for this genre.

So, is the problem the fact that I haven’t added to my library an album from those genres? But then why I can start roon radio in ARC for a genre even tho I don’t have albums of those genre in my library? And if this is the problem, I have 2 questions:

How can I enjoy a Roon radio selection of an obsucured (for me) genre I feel like exploring and from which I haven’t added any albums yet?
I still have the problem that from some genres in my Roon Windows app (for examples New Zealand and Polynesian) I can’t see any albums of the genres, so I can’t save an album even if I wanted. Therefore I have no option to start Roon radio while staying in Roon Windows app. I see zero albums or artists on Roon Windows app so I need to use ARC to save an album or just play the radio from ARC. But switching to ARC is not always that handy if I have attached to my laptop (my core) some equipment. I would need to attach my phone to the audio equipment and can’t use my phone. But it seems strange to me that I need to open ARC to do that, i mean, if I hadn’t ARC I couldn’t do it at all… I think this is strange. And if I’m listening from my windows app only I couldn’t start a radio from a genre nor save an album from that genre to enabe the “play now” button because it doesn’t let me see any reccomended albums (while i see those on ARC).

Anyway, sorry for the very long message!

Roon Core Platform

Windows

Roon Core Specifications

Windows 11, Intel(R) Core™ i7-1065G7 CPU @ 1.30GHz, 1498 Mhz, 4 core, 8 processors, RAM 16GB

Connected Audio Devices

Headphones through usb DAC/AMP, bluethooth speaker

Home Network Details

I have a router and my laptop (the roon core) is connected via WiFi

Riccardo_Sicheri · August 24, 2023, 12:36pm

I’ll attach screenshots of the examples I mentioned above:

Riccardo_Sicheri · August 24, 2023, 12:36pm

More screenshots of the last 2 examples:

Riccardo_Sicheri · August 24, 2023, 12:37pm

I think this is somehow related to my previous support ticket I opened 2 days ago, so I’ll link it just in case it’s useful for the support team: Recently Played Section Missing on Roon Home Screen (ref#DGDX30)

benjamin · September 19, 2023, 8:31pm

Hi @Riccardo_Sicheri,

Thanks for taking the time to write in, and my sincere apologies for the long delay in getting to your thread!

Following up on your issue -

The first thing I’d test out is hardwiring your core directly to your router, bypassing any network gear, or third-party security.

Since you are using a Windows PC, I would verify that both Roon.exe and RAATServer.exe have been added as exceptions to your Windows firewall.

You can use these instructions to add the exceptions and the executables themselves would be located in your Database Location/Application folder path.

I would also add these exceptions to any Antivirus or other Firewall blocking applications you may have and ensure that you connected to your network via a Private network, not a Public one, see this guide for more information.

Lastly, if you could please reproduce the issue and share a more specific date and time of when you attempt to start Roon Radio on a troublesome genre, that would be helpful.

Thanks!

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 3, 2023, 8:46am

I couldn’t connect my laptop via Ethernet because I don’t have a USB-C adaptor.

I verified that both Roon.exe and RAATServer.exe are added as exceptions to my Windows firewall. I currently don’t have an active sub for an antivirus so there’s no problem with that.

I set my network as private.

I’ll reproduce the issues with date and time:

Today is the 3rd of October 2023

I try to play a genre that roon on my laptop suggests me which in this case is African Jazz, as you can see from the picture I’ll attach below, I can’t play it, the “play now” button is not working and so I can’t start a Roon Radio.

Now I go to my ARC app, I go to this genre and I can play it, as you can see in the picture below I can click the button. I clicked it and it’s playing roon radio from this genre through my phone. It’s 10:38 am Italy time.

Now, after I pressed “start radio” on this genre on the ARC app, I go back to my home screen in roon windows laptop and in my recently played there is this:

Basically, not only in roon windows app I can’t start roon radios from some genres, but when I do start roon radio of those genres through my ARC app on my phone, in my recently played section in the home screen of my roon windows app on my laptop, the fact that I played roon radio from ARC shows as a blank space in my recently played section as you see in the image above.

This blank space in my recently played section happens for every roon radio of every genre I start from ARC app, even for those genres where I have albums in my library.

So my questions are:

How can we solve this blank spaces that form in my recently played section?
How can I play roon radio of a genre from my roon windows app (my core) that I don’t know yet just for the sake of discovering it and listening to something different? Because I currently can’t. To do that I need to switch to my phone with ARC, where I have this freedom.

benjamin · October 3, 2023, 10:13pm

Hi @Riccardo_Sicheri,

Thanks for the update! Unfortunately, we cannot connect to your core device from our servers to request a fresh diagnostic report. Please, use the directions found here and send over a set of logs to our File Uploader?

Thanks!

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 4, 2023, 10:03pm

Ok, I’ve uploaded the logs folder as the instructions said.

benjamin · October 6, 2023, 7:33pm

Hey @Riccardo_Sicheri,

Thanks for sending those over!

As a follow up, it would be good to see if the same thing occurs on a completely fresh database. Steps to follow below:

Create a Backup of your current database
Exit out of Roon
Navigate to your Roon Database Location
Find the folder that says “Roon”
Rename the “Roon” folder to “Roon_old”
Reinstall the Roon App from our Downloads Page to generate a new Roon folder
Verify if the issue persists on a fresh database before restoring the backup

Let me know if the same issue occurs before restoring any backups! Thanks Riccardo

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 7, 2023, 9:47am

Okay, done. I sadly have the exact same issues as before… all the issues I wrote before are still present, including that one with the Polynesian genre, where I have recommended albums on ARC and I have nothing at all on Roon Windows app.

I’ll wait for your response before doing the backup.

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 7, 2023, 7:00pm

As another example that happened just now: I was on Roon on my Windows app and Roon suggested me this genre (see pictures below) in home screen. And once again on Roon windows app this genre was empty, while if I go to that same genre on ARC on my phone I see albums of that genre and I can start Roon Radio.

benjamin · October 13, 2023, 5:49pm

Hey @Riccardo_Sicheri,

Thanks for the most recent update!

As a next step, could you please take review your router settings, and ensure that all your devices are on the same local subnet? It appears that your core device and your mobile device may be functioning on different subnets which could certainly be the culprit for your issues.

Could you take a look and let me know? Thanks Riccardo

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 13, 2023, 6:04pm

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by checking that everything is under the same subnet. And how to check it.
Could you please explain to me what should I do? Thanks!

Suedkiez · October 13, 2023, 6:49pm

Post the IP addresses of all your Roon-related devices. Your router should list them, or look them up in the network settings of the devices themselves. In the network settings (again either of router or devices), there will be an additional number, called either “Netmask” or “Subnet Mask”. Post that one, too

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 16, 2023, 9:29am

Thank you Suedkiez!

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 16, 2023, 9:36am

I found these infos in my router settings:

for my Windows PC (my core):
Mac Address 9c:29:76:7f:c0:51
IP 192.168.1.56
For my phone (where I use ARC):
Mac Address 5e:cb:2b:f6:87:2a
IP 192.168.1.105

The port forwarding IP for Roon ARC is 192.168.1.56

Screenshot of the router settings where I took the infos for my WIndows PC:

Screenshot of the place where I took the infos for my phone:

Screenshot of the the port mapping setting for roon if useful:

Are these the infos you wanted?

benjamin · October 16, 2023, 10:09pm

Hi @Riccardo_Sicheri,

Thanks for sending that over! It does help!

The .1 refers to Wifi within your local network, in which your core device appears to still be connecting via wifi.

Setting up a hardwired connection from your core to your router would be a really useful next step to test in this situation. If you’re able to get your hands on an adapter, I’d be very curious to see if the same issue occurs.

With that, I would also review your DNS settings on your windows core. If possible, test out updating your DNS to Google (8.8.8.8) or Cloudflare (1.1.1.1) and see if the issue persists.

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 18, 2023, 8:25pm

I will always use my laptop with Wifi as I move around a lot. So being this my use case I would want to resolve the issue while on Wifi. + I’m not that keen to buy an adaptor that I won’t use except for this one time, but I will try to see if someone around me has one.

I tried with google and cloudflare DNS but it was all the same.

Plus I noticed another issue I didn’t have before today/yesterday: now whatever genre I use to start Roon Radio, no matter if I’m in Roon Windows app or ARC, I get this:

It limits Roon Radio to library saying it didn’t find anything similar, which is impossible, since:

It did find it and it did work since yesterday;
This happens even with Pop/Rock genre where there are so many songs and albums.
I tried other genres and it was the same, it started Roon Radio with the same problem as in the picture above and with selections that didn’t fit (example: I was in the genre African Traditions and it started playing one African song I have in my library and then Italian songs that clearly didn’t fit at all.

I noticed it does this also starting Roon Radio from some artists pages: I tried to start Roon Radio from artists pages of U2 and AC/DC and it didn’t find anything similar as in the picture above.

I’m a bit frustrated because I still can’t use Roon smoothly and with ease (I wrote you the 24th of August and I’m still here, it’s almost 2 months ago) and it seems issues continue to pop up, and most importantly, starting Roon Radio from genres it was one of my favourite things to do in Roon.

I tried logging out and in from Tidal, using my phone as hotspot instead of using the routers Wifi, rebooting my PC, logging out and in of Roon and even uninstalling and installing Roon again, i tried both with a fresh install and then with the backup.

benjamin · October 20, 2023, 9:14pm

Hi @Riccardo_Sicheri,

Thanks for the update. While our team investigates issues related to Roon Radio, I’d like to explore your comment below a bit more:

It’s clear that Roon is occasionally also registering your core as 192.168.56.1 - do you have any idea what this IP is referring to, or why it exists?

This is evidence DHCP is acting weird, and there is a potential and accidental second subnet within your network. Thinking in terms of future smoothness and success with Roon, it would be good to get this sorted out.

Riccardo_Sicheri · October 21, 2023, 10:17am

I don’t have any idea about it… The only thing that comes to my mind It’s that to use ARC in a location I am most of the time (so with my core connected to that place router), to use port mapping I had to ask the internet provider to have a public IP. It was when I was connected to that router that I sent you those infos and screenshots of my devices IPs. I don’t know if this helps, but to use to port forwarding and use ARC I had to do that so I don’t think it could be this one the problem, otherwise It would mean I can’t use ARC to use Roon smoothly.

But again, I don’t know much about these PC technical things, I didn’t know about port forwarding before ARC for example, so I don’t know why that IP exists nor how to sort the subnet issue. I’m actually asking you for support because I can’t get these issues sorted out by myself, naturally.