Identification problems (very long post)

I’m having a huge problems with inentifications of albums, many of which don’t seem fixable using the available tools. The problems fall into several categories. The biggest problem I seem to be having is where additional disks in a multi-disk set get indetified as disk one. (In other words, where a multi disk set was ripped with each disk was titled “XYZ Album (Disk 1)”, “XYZ Album (Disk 2)”, “XYZ Album (Disk 3)”, etc. and the tracks on each disk were all numbered 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, etc. as opposed to being identified as a single “XYZ Album” with tracks being numbered 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 … 2-1, 2-2, 2-3 … 3-1, 3-2, 3-3, etc.) What roon does is to interleave the tracks so that under the album listing (take a 3-disk set), you get tracks in the following order: 1-1, 2-1, 3-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2, etc. So what you get when you try to identify the album is that none of your track numberings actually work. You can, of course, move the tracks around, but in a large set, that can be a herculean effort. The main reason for that is because you can’t select multiple tracks in the identification screem and move them en masse. I tried modifying the metadata on my tracks using an external program, but Roon somehow didn’t see the changes.

I’ll give you two examples: First: Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon Immersion Edition. This is a multi-disk box set that includes multiple different format disks. The only CDs in the set were ripped on my Sooloos and were identified as disks 1, 2 and 3. But Roon thinks that what was idemtfied as disk 3 is really disk 6. So roon correctly matched the first two disks withthe first two disks of the set, but instead of matching the tracks that were ripped as disk 3 with the identical tracks that are in disk 6 in the roon database, it has them as disk 3 and not matching. Fine, I accept that the software works that way. But here’s the problem: there are 170 tracks in between disk 3 and disk 6 in the database, so it would take 2,720 mouse clicks to move the traks into the correct order. Life’s just to short to spend the effort to do that. There has to be a better way.

Here’s another, less eggregious example: Stevie Wonder - Songs in the Key of Life. When this disk was ripped, disk 2 was mistagged as disk 1. Roon merged the tracks in this order 1-1, 1-1, 1-2, 1-2, 1-3, 1-3, etc. I edited the metadata of this disk to make it disk 2, but roon never saw the changes. If there’s a way to let it know to re-read metadata, I don’t know what it is. In any case, what I did was to use Grooping to remove the disk 2 tracks and I wound up with two albums, one with the disk 1 tracks and the other with the disk 2 tracks. When I re-merged the disks, of course, they went back to being interleaved. So I broke the tracks out again and then re-ran the identification on the second disk. I manually moved the tracks individually (moving 16 tracks down 10 places, only 160 mouse clicks which is still way too many) so that I now had two disks that were correctly indentied, one with the disk one data and one with the disk two data. when I merged these albums, the tracks interleaved again! So once again, I manually moved all the tracks to the right place, and now everything is correct, but it took almost 90 minutes to correct the data for one album, way too much!

A second problem is with multiple copies of the same album that strictly speaking shouldn’t ever occur. I’ll use Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells as my example and I’ll try to illustrate with screen shots. I have three copies of Tubular Bells. Here’s a copy of the finder listing:

“Tubular Bells” and Tubular Bells [2009 Mix] are both 44.1/16 and Rubular Bells HD is the original 1973 mix in 48/24 downloaded from B&W Society of Sound. I have no problem with the original 2-track CD. It gets correctly identified. But look at the way that the other two get identified:

Look at the crazy way that the tracks are listed and the bizarre track times. FYI, the system knows the correct track times because here’s a screen shot of the identification screen:

There has t be a fix for this.

Then there are problems with the Roon database itself. Take a look at this screen shot:

The group you have denominated as “M.A.N.” is, in fact, the Welsh band Man who you have also correctly identified innediately to the right. Now look at this: Here’s an album you think is by M.A.N but is really by Man:

Notice that the description is entirely correct for the first album by Man, and the link in the description takes you to the artist page of Man even though it thinks that the artist is M.A.N. FYI, the metadata on the tracks is correct in identifying the goup as Man, not M.A.N.

There are lots more similar issues in all three categories, but I though I’d start with these. Any thoughts?

I actually sent some details regarding my experience with multi disc albums to Mike yesterday.

What I have found is if I have tagged albums of a multi disc set with the same album name for each disc and have properly used the DISCNUMBER tag for each album ( i.e. Disc 1 of 2, Disc 2 of 2) and if the folder structure is as follows:

/music/DSD/Bob Dylan/Blonde on Blonde (Disc 1)
/music/DSD/Bob Dylan/Blonde on Blonde (Disc 2)

Then Roon will treat this as one album with sections for Disc 1, Disc2 etc…

This is consider correct behavior.

If however all of the above is true except my folder structure is different, then Roon treats them as separate albums. This is an example of a folder structure for the two disc “At The Fillmore East”

/music/DSD/The Allman Brothers Band/The Allman Brothers Band - At Fillmore East
/music/DSD/The Allman Brothers Band/The Allman Brothers Band - At Fillmore East (1)

Some programs such as Minimserver will treat the above as one album with multiple discs. IMHO it would be wonderful if Roon too could via the ALBUM Tag and DISCNUMBER tag treat this as one album with multiple discs.

Hey guys. I’m going to read this over and circle back with the guys, then I’ll follow up.

In the mean time, if you haven’t read @jeremiah’s post here, it’s got a lot of information about how we look at directory structure, and what types of structure are likely to give the best results in Roon.

Agreed @rbienstock – way too much clicking. We’re working on some better tools here.

I think a big part of the reason you’re having this issue is that Sooloos 2.1 did not handle multi-disc sets very well, so a lot of discs are being called Disc 1 when they’re actually not.

That’s not to say we can’t do better, just that I suspect this issue affects those coming from Sooloos more than most.

Can you tell me a little more about how your storage is setup? OSX as your main install? If you’re using a network drive, can you tell me how it’s set up?

This looks like a bug. I’m going to follow up via PM and get some more information from you @rbienstock - I’d like the guys to see this so we can figure out the issue.

This looks like a bug too. For some reason, we’ve decided that the real Man is the same as these guys, probably because somewhere in our database, someone incorrectly credited M.A.N. when it should have been the eclectic Welsh rockers you’re looking for.

We have some work planned to make these equivalences better, but I’m guessing we’ll probably fix this one by hand.

Thanks for the report Robert – I’ll be in touch to get some more info.

And @bplexico – I have info from you to go over too, so expect to hear from me soon too :slight_smile:

That’s exactly the case. And also Sooloos had problems looking up so many disks that on many I just gave up, entered the track names using another program and forgot about mathing the Sooloos data. Roon found almost every one, including some pretty obscure ones.

One thing I observed that somewhat surprised me (though I suppose that it was wishful thinking on my part) was that one album and artist that didn’t get identified was a needle drop rip of “Buckingham Nicks”. Even though there’s no CD release of this album, there’s lots of vinyl in your database and this is a pretty famous album by two important artists in their early career.

I’m running Roon on a Mac Mini with a 2.5 GHz i5 running OSX Yosemite. The data is on an external hard drive connected to the mini via usb.

Don’t get me started on “At Fillmore East.” That disk has other problems that I detailed here: Problems with editing album

Please have a look at this post too:

Here’s another DB glitch I found: The Georg Solti recording of Wagner’s Der Ring Des Niebulungen consists of four multi-disk sets, one for each of the four operas in the work. The first three operas get properly identified (here is Siegfried as an example):

Note that it says “Performed by Georg Solti / Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra” Which, IMO, is how it should be. But here’s Götterdämmerung:

Note that it says that it is performed by Birgit Nielsen Georg Solti. Birgit Nielsen does sing the lead role in the opera, but the way it shows now, the album gets sorted under Birgit Nielsen instead of Georg Solti. Interestingly, I was able to identify the album using the original (correct) metadata, but if I try to re-identify the album using the info from Roon’s own database, it can’t find itself!

The only way to actually re-identify the album is to select “none of these look right” and remove birgit Nielsen from the artist search field.

A question for the Roon team - do you want to be notified regarding all metadata problems? If so, it would likely warrant its own forum category.