LG V30 Andoid app - Clicks and gaps

I am noticing continuous clicks and gaps on my LG V30 phone when playing FLAC files from my Library on the Roon Andoid app, or normal (non-MQA) music from Tidal via Roon on Android.

I am running Roon 1.5 core on a Windows 10 server, and the V30 is running Android 8.0. For the same local files, I don’t get this problem on the V30 running BubbleUpNp, or HiFi Player on the phone from Jriver Mediacentre. Tidal files also play perfectly on the phone when running the Tidal Android app, or UAPP. Roon/Tidal worked perfectly on my Note 8 phone by the way. So this is not a network issue as all other combinations work fine.

All the above leads me to think that the Roon Android app does not properly address the HiRes 4-way DAC on the V30. That’s a shame because the V30 is an astonishing bit of Audiophile kit, and is now my default music player for everywhere except the listening room . I understand that the V30 is just one out of many many Android phones - but it is the only truly audiophile one (Stereophile mag just raved about it and rated it class A). And given the truly miraculous job Roon did on Devialet support, which rendered Devialet Air actually usable on my Expert pro, I am sure that native LG V30 support would be both beneficial and possible. After all there must be and will be many more V30s out there than Devialet Expert Pros.

Is there any way to fix this - or is there a settings combination that will work?

@support

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Thank you for your report, @David_McAughtry

You are correct that Roon does not currently play to anything but the Android mixer at the moment. I cannot make any promises that this will change, or give a timeframe for when it will be addressed, but we do plan on make improvements to this in the future.

That said, you should be able to play to your Android device without the issues that you mentioned above. May I kindly ask that you please provide a brief description of your current setup using this link as a guide.

Make sure to describe your network configuration/topology, including any networking hardware currently in use, so we can have a clear understanding of how your devices are communicating.

May I also ask that you please verify the following:

  • Is this only happening with FLAC files? Other files are playing okay?
  • Do you experience this with any other endpoints connected via WiFi?
  • Are you using default settings under Device Setup for your V30? Is DSP disabled?

Regards,
Dylan

Thanks for the response. I thought I gave you all the relevant information described in your
link in my first post. I’ll reformat it for you if that makes life easier and add in the few
missing (and probably not relevant) items. I would add that I have spent far too much time trying to get this response to format properly in the undocumented, bizarre and inconsistent wordwrap restrictions of this message board. I give up at this point - hope you find it legible.

In answer to your other questions:

Is this only happening with FLAC files? Other files are playing okay? - I am only

playing FLAC files via Tidal. Most are 16/44.1 but it also happens with Master files as you would
expect. The problem occurs with locally connected FLAC files as well as Tidal. That’s
because, as I keep saying, the issue is the support (or lack of it) by the Roon native app of
the V30 DAC.

Do you experience this with any other endpoints connected via WiFi?: No.  As I said in

my first post, Roon/Tidal works perfectly on my Samsung Note 8 in identical
circumstances. The Tidal native app works perfectly on my LG V30. UAPP (USB Audio
Pro) on my V30 not only works perfectly with Tidal but supports full unfolding of
MQA/Masters to 24/172 or 196, without any clicking or any other problems.
Are you using default settings under Device Setup for your V30? Is DSP disabled? There
is no
DSP option for the phone setup (LG V30 Mod H-930). Device setup is Default: Vol control -
Device volume, Resync delay 0ms, Max Sample rate up to 48kHz, Max bps: 16, zone delay
0ms, Clock master priority: 1MQA decoder not enabled (enabling makes no difference),
Mixing: Downmix as needed.

I am disappounted that there are no plans to address this. The LG V30 is the only
Audiophile, MQA enabled phone on the market in the West. It’s not like other phones - it is
as worthy of support as a Devialet amp, an A&K player or other piece of esoteric equipment
you support - except with greater sales volumes. By the way, I was about to purchase a
lifetime sub to Roon, but as Roon is unusable on my V30 daily driver (the premier
Audiophile phone on the market) I am going to have to defer that.

Here are the other questions answered in your requested format (most of the information
already supplied in my first post)

what version of Roon you are running (Settings > About; If you’re running Windows,

please let us know whether you’re running 32bit or 64 bit): Roon 1.5, 64-bit Windows
What operating system you are running (Windows 7; OSX 10.9; etc): Windows 10
Basic information about the device you’re using (MacBook Pro 2011 w 4gb of RAM; HP
Envy laptop w i7; etc): Acer Revo RL85 with i5 processor, 4GB RAM.
Describe where your music is stored – this includes hard drive description and interface
type (USB, Firewire, etc. If you are using a NAS or any other kind of network storage, be
sure to include the information requested in the Network section below). USB 3 attached
4TB disk – but this is not relevant for Tidal.
Let us know your collection size (approximate number of tracks): around 27k while I am
testing Roon. But the main issue is Tidal.

Describe Your Network(if you’re having an issue that involves networked components)
If your issue is related to your network, let us know the basics of your network. If
yoursystem includes networked storage or audio zones, or Roon running as a remote, be
sure to include:

What router are you using? When did you last update the firmware? Sky Q router, latest
firmware. 5GHz wireless to Android phone.
Is there any other networking hardware involved? Not for this problem.
Is everything wired, wireless, or is there a mix of wired and wireless gear? All wireless for
this problem

Describe Your Media
(if the issue involves playback)

If your issue is related to playback, let us know what you’re trying to play, specifically:

What format and type of file are you trying to play? FLAC 16/44.1
Does this issue happen with all files or just some? All
Where did the media come from? Did you rip it or convert yourself, or did you purchase it

somewhere? Ripped myself

Describe Your Tidal Setup
(if the issue involves Tidal content)

If your issue is related to syncing, browsing, or playing Tidal content, please let us know::

What country your Tidal account is from? UK
Whether you have a Premium or Hifi (lossless) account HiFi
A link to the song(s) you’re trying to play on the Tidal website: For example this one

https://listen.tidal.com/track/15563340 plays perfectly on the Android Tidal app, and
continuously click and stops on the Roon Android app.
What you’re seeing for Library Sync Time on the Services tab of Settings: 7:56:55 (it’s
9:29 as I write this)
If the issue involves a playlist that is failing to sync, please let us know; No
Whether it’s a private playlist you’ve created yourself, or something publicly available on
the Tidal website: No
If it’s a public playlist, please provide a link: No
Whether the songs in that playlist can be played in Roon from other screens in Roon (ie, if
you search for them): N/A

Describe Your Output
(if the issue involves playback via a specific output): Any output has this problem: Local
Phone speakers and headphones

Lastly, if your issue is related to a specific output (meaning it only happens with Airplay, or
with your DAC, or when linked, etc), let us know:

What output are you using? (this could be System Output on Windows, a Meridian

MS200, your DAC, etc): Phone
What brand and model are you using (this could be the model of your DAC, or laptop, or
something like Airport Express Gen2): LG V30 H930
How is the output configured (the easiest way is to post a screenshot like below, but you
can also tell us whether you’re using Exclusive Mode, how you have DSD conversion set
up, etc): No
Are you using anything else in your chain (such as DIRAC, Amarra sQ, etc): No
Does this issue happen with different kinds of media (Tidal, FLAC, DSD, etc): Yes, FLAC
and Tidal

Thank you for the additional details, @David_McAughtry.

Apologies for the difficulties with formatting here, but I appreciate your effort in making sure you provided all of the applicable details.

Do you experience this same behavior when the HiFi Quad DAC setting is disabled on the device? Or do you still hear the clicks?

Regards,
Dylan

Dylan - it’s the same whether the V30 quad DAC is enabled or disabled. And the same incidentally with Tidal or local networked library tracks. I suspect the RAAT PCM stream is going no-where near the quad DAC interface. In fact I have my doubts it’s even getting to the regular DAC - it almost sounds like it’s trying and failing to do the D-A conversion in software.

I can switch the V30 between UAPP (USB Audio Player Pro) playing these tracks (Tidal and local) perfectly, and Roon rendering the same tracks pretty much unlistenable. I would class UAPP as a genuine audiophile phone product by the way, where the developers have taken the trouble to support the main audiophile phone in the market. And it costs $7.99. This is in pretty marked contrast I am afraid to Roon for the V30, both in support and price. UAPP also has the merit of being able to operate anywhere the phone can, instead of being tethered to a Roon core. All it lacks is the excellent metadata of Roon. Even Tidal which additionally has a desktop app and a huge library to maintain, has managed to provide support for the quad DAC on the V30. As has Neutron, another Android audiophile app. Roon is the only ‘audiophile’ app that doesn’t support it.

I would vastly prefer Roon to work of course since I’ve already invested in an annual license and a great deal of setup time. But UAPP covers 90% of my geographical needs, with true audiophile quality, and hugely better phone support for a life time cost 1/100th that of Roon. Hmmm…how can this be?

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In case you are wondering why I am making all this this fuss about a phone, this is what Stereophile Magazine (May edition 2018) said about the V30:

"Forced to choose among listening through headphones to the LG V30 or to the Bel Canto Design Black ACI 600 all-in-one integrated amplifier I reviewed in April ($24,900), or through loudspeakers to the Aurender A10 network music player/server ($5500) in my main system, I’d choose the LG V30.

Musically speaking, the LG V30 phone doesn’t qualify as merely smart; LG’s implementation of its Hi-Fi Quad DAC is a work of genius. If ever there were a device that could bring the experience of high-end sound to millions of music lovers, the hi-rez V30 with MQA is it."

The V30 is a game changer every much as Roon has been. Its a real shame they don’t work together.

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/lg-v30-hi-res-smartphone-mqa-page-2#cx2bK1iExjWw6ZhB.99

Thank you for the information, @David_McAughtry.

Apologies for the difficulties you’ve been having. I wanted to reach out and let you know that I have passed along your report to the technical team so they can investigate this further. I’ll be sure to keep you updated on their investigation when I hear back from them.

Regards,
Dylan

Hey @David_McAughtry,

Thank you for your patience as we have investigated your report. I had a meeting with the technical team about this today, and I wanted to give you an update.

As I mentioned above, we are currently looking into making improvements to the way we handle playback on Android devices. I do not have a timeline I can provide for when these improvements will be happening, but I just wanted to confirm that it is on our radar.

Regarding the clicks and pops that you’re hearing on your device, the technical team thinks there may be something else at play here that could be causing this. We have a decent amount of customers using Roon on this device and we have not heard this issue reported elsewhere, so that also points to something else going wrong here.

The technical team has suggested that we look into power saving settings that are currently active on the device. Try disabling any power saving settings that may be affecting Roon and see if you notice any changes. We have seen these types of settings cause similar issues before, so that may be what is going on here.

Thank you again for your patience during the investigation, it is truly appreciated!

Regards,
Dylan

Same with the V20 identical DAC

Hi @David_McAughtry,

I’m already sorry for not giving you proper solutions ;-), but I just wanted to point out that your conclusion does not make perfect sense…
(Conclusion being : Roon doesn’t use my ESS DAC, doesn’t use my regular DAC either -> hence, DA conversion must have been done in software, and fails doing that correctly).

Well, software just cannot output anything analog. Easy as that. If you hear sound, it must have been converted to the analog domain, which can only be done when assisted by analog stuff (like electronics in a DAC).
Ergo, you have a problem, but the problem does not reside where you think it does.

(Of course I agree : it would be nicest, if Roon could contact your ESS dac more directly.)

Regarding solutions, I’m not so sure. But I do have a gut feeling.
I understand that Roon outputs to the Android mixer. Most (if not not all) Android mixers run natively at 48kHz.
Something must resample your music,to this rate. This can be done software-wise; both your phone’s own software, or additional applications.
I have certainly seen Android software, that doesn’t do this in a proper way, and click-and-pop like hell…

If I were in your shoes, I would first test if 48kHz files also stutters through Roon, on your V30.
No stuttering ? Great ! Then setup the Roon core to resample everything sent you your phone, to 48kHz. (Can’t be done in the Android App, use your Windows installation for this).

(Of course, this would be a temporary workaround, until the Roon app can output to DACs directly instead of through the Android mixer.)

(Off topic : a professional reviewing website once asked me to do a short measurement session with various phones, to investigate how feasible it is to show audio differences to consumers. This never made it online, was a bit too difficult to explain for the average user. But I remember the V30 being an absolute standout, especially due to its excellent headphones output.)

HI, I have my doubts as to whether this is receiving any attention at all in Roon, and that’s reinforcing my initial inclination not to go for a lifetime Roon sub. But just for clarity, let me clarify a few items:

  1. As I have now stated 3 times, the same V30 phone, with the same battery/power saving and network settings works perfectly in pulling down Tidal music of any bit rate when used with the Tidal Android or UAPP apps. It does not play properly when the Roon app is used. The same is true of music pulled from the local network. My problem is not caused by phone or network settings, but by the Roon app I suggest. FYI the Roon app is specifically excluded from power saving.

  2. You have TWO reports of this problem in this post! Mine, and that of Mario_Grech_Xerri (above) who reports it for the V20 which has the same DAC and phone architecture. You may well have many users of the Roon app on the V30 - I suggest they are mostly used (if at all) as a remote controller of the Roon core on to a Roon end point. Here you have two specific issues raised of the local DAC on the phone not working - so I am puzzled what it takes for you to accept there is a problem.

  3. To Marco_de_Jonge - thanks for the helpful comments and suggestions. On the DAC process, my words were: “It ALMOST sounds like it’s trying and failing to do the D-A conversion in software”. Poor choice of words probably, but the stuttering sounds like a software process failing to keep pace - and there are certainly large elements of software in the DA conversion chain. Sample rate conversion for example. On the sample rate - both the other apps (Tidal Android and UAPP Android) play at 44.1 without problem - no conversion necessary. DNLA/UpNp apps like HiFi cast and BubbleUpNp pulling tracks off my network server also work fine at 44.1 on my V30 without reconversion. Neither of these apps have native V30 DA drivers - they both send to the Android mixer. But they both work at 44.1 and no stuttering. I’ll look at setting the Roon Core to 48kHz for the Android phone when I get back to the UK - interesting thought, and strange it wasn’t mentioned by Roon support, since if it was a problem it would happen for almost all Android phones, as you note.

While I wait for any meaningful response from Roon, I’m finding how effective other apps - specifically the TIdal Android app and UAPP are. Both work properly on the awesome DAC of the V30. In addition, TIdal supports Chromecast - unlike Roon, so I can play to all my local systems including my Devialet ensemble simultaneously. And UAPP does full Tidal Master unfolding on the phone, allowing 176/192kHz playback faultlessly. And of course they both work away from the Roon core, so in France, where I now am (on vacation), Roon is unusable, but the other two apps work perfectly.
@support

Hey David – let me first say you have our apologies for the frustration here.

Just to be clear, we are actively looking into this issue, and absolutely intend to resolve this, whatever is actually going on here.

When you initially reported this to the support team, I took a quick look and we have a significant number of users using Roon with this phone. It’s possible most are using it for control (as opposed to playback) but it’s surprising we only have a couple of reports like yours. That’s why we’ve initially been focused on troubleshooting here. It’s important we determine if this is something affecting everyone with that phone, or just certain configurations/environments – the questions we’ve been asking are largely focused on confirming that.

I should also mention that we are in the process of overhauling Roon’s audio playback on Android. This work is in the early stages, and I don’t have a time frame for exactly when those changes might go live, but it’s worth mentioning that those changes are coming, as there’s a good chance they’ll help with this issue.

Finally, if we’re able to conclude there is a bug here, we’ll do everything we can to fix it David. Fixing bugs that only reproduce on specific hardware generally takes a bit longer to resolve, as we need to be able to reproduce the issue in our QA lab to move forward, make changes, and confirm the problem is resolved.

That said, if something is broken, we’ll investigate and work to close the issue. For now, I just want to be clear that this issue isn’t being ignored.

We appreciate your patience, David. If battery optimization is disabled for Roon, that’s helpful feedback here, so we’ll be discussing this further with the dev team, and then we’ll be in touch.

Thanks!

Hi Mike and Dylan. I should say how impressed I have been with how responsive and unfailingly polite Roon support (i.e you both) has been. It’s quite unusual, and a great model for the rest of the industry - and also quite probably why there are so many Roon fanatics out there. I’ll wait with interest to see if there are any possible fixes.
@support

1 Like

Hello, I wish to add that I am having the same issues with my LG V30+. No issues playing from other Android devices, iOS devices, multiple desktops and laptops etc.

The LG V30+ is working well when using Tidal / Qobuz / USB Audio Player Pro etc.

Same here. I mainly use the app on my V30 for remote control, but I have these issues whenever I try to use it as an endpoint. When I first purchased the phone last October this wasn’t an issue, so I would guess the issue began with a semi-recent update.

Same here. I bought recently a V30 not only for mobility or remote but also to use it as an endpoint for earphones but sadly I have the same problems that other V30 owners have.
No similar problems with other apps and V30 or with an android tablet and Roon.
I hope devs team will be able to fix this problem because V30 is a stunning audiohile smartphone.

Thanks

Andrea

Hey @Traveller @Ronald_Tracey @Andrea_Tacchetti,

The team is currently investigating this, and I was hoping to get some more information from all of you regarding your setup, as well as gather diagnostics reports for these cases. This additional data will assist the team during their investigation.

First, may I ask that you please provide a brief description of your current setup using this link as a guide.

Make sure to describe your network configuration/topology, including any networking hardware currently in use, so we can have a clear understanding of how your devices are communicating.

The next step here is to enable some diagnostics on your account so our technical staff can get some more insight into what’s going on here. First, can you please reproduce the issue once more and note the time at which the error occurs. Then respond here with that time, and I’ll make sure we review the diagnostics related to that timestamp.

Have there been any changes in your setup since this has become an issue? Any networking changes or new devices that have been added to your setup?

Thanks all!
-Dylan

Hi Dylan - thanks for the reply.

I was able to replicate the issue beginning at 10:26PM EDT with a number of file types and with TIDAL. The stuttering begins almost immediately in all cases.

The only thing I can think of that might have changed before it stopped working is the addition of the Netgear extender. However, I was still able to replicate the issue with that turned off, beginning at 10:31PM EDT. Hope that helps.

Here are my setup details:

What version of Roon you are running

  • Version 1.5 (build 334)

What operating system you are running

  • OSX 10.12.6

Basic information about the device you’re using

  • Mac Pro 5,1 (Early 2009)
    • 2.66 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
    • 14gb 1066 MHz DDR3

Describe where your music is stored – this includes hard drive description and interface type

  • WD Red 4tb SATA drive in MacPro

Let us know your collection size (approximate number of tracks)

  • About 85,000 tracks
    • Mostly ALAC and MP3 format
  • TIDAL

What router are you using? When did you last update the firmware?

  • Netgear Nighthawk X4 R7500v2
    • Firmware V1.0.3.26 (latest)

Is there any other networking hardware involved?

  • Netgear Nighthawk X6S EX8000 Tri-Band Range Extender
    • Firmware V1.0.1.164 (latest)
  • Various Netgear ethernet switches

Is everything wired, wireless, or is there a mix of wired and wireless gear?

  • MacPro (Core) is wired
  • V30 is wireless, 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz access points

What output are you using?

  • Android OS Mixer

What brand and model are you using

  • LG V30 (VS996)

How is the output configured

Are you using anything else in your chain

  • No

Does this issue happen with different kinds of media

  • All types

Best,
Ron

Thanks @Ronald_Tracey.

I’ve enabled diagnostics and will be sending the report, along with your setup info detailed here, over to the team to aid in their investigation. I’ll be sure to keep this thread updated as progress is made.

One additional question — Do you remember when you last successfully used the LGV30 as an endpoint? I know you said it wasn’t an issue in October, but did you use it at any point after that?

-Dylan

@dylan Hi Dylan thanks for your reply and sorry for the delay but I’ve been very busy the last few days.

Here’s my setup
Here are my setup details:

What version of Roon you are running

Version 1.5 (build 334)

What operating system you are running

Windows 10 Pro 64bit Build 1803

Basic information about the device you’re using

Desktop PC with corei7 2600K, 16GB RAM, SSD Samsung 850 EVo 250GB

Describe where your music is stored – this includes hard drive description and interface type

Storage   USB3 IcyBox with Red 4 to 10 tb SATA drive in MacPro

Let us know your collection size (approximate number of tracks)

About 279,000 tracks
    Mostly FLAC or DSD and few MP3s+ TIDAL

What router are you using? When did you last update the firmware?

Provider's router Vodafone Station Revolution Firmware 5.4.8.1.316.1.28.2.13

Is there any other networking hardware involved?

Dlink powerline DHP700AV

Is everything wired, wireless, or is there a mix of wired and wireless gear?

Desktop is connected via Powerline
V30 is wireless, 5Ghz and 2.4Ghz access points

What output are you using?

Networked Android 8.0

What brand and model are you using

LG V30 

How is the output configured


immagine

I tried with DSP enabled and disabled with any changes

Are you using anything else in your chain

No

Does this issue happen with different kinds of media

All types

I played to my V30 this evening 15.07.2018 between 20.52 to 20.54 with Quad DAC enabled and between 20.55-20.56 with quad DAC disabled witout any changes. The issue (clicks and gaps) is showing imediately and constantly.
Since I bought my V30 almost a month ago I’ve never been able to get sound without issues in Roon but I use it everyday with other software (both physical and streaming files).
I also add that i own an Iphone 6 that works perfectly with Roon in the same network

Thanks again and bye

Andrea