NUC8I7BEH/ROCK HDMI to Denon 8500H Dropout Issues

Support
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Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

NUC8I7BEH 16gb ram, Samsung 970 EVO Plus 250GB M.2 PCIe NVME, Samsung 860 EVO 1TB 2.5
Rock Version 1.0 (Build 175) Roon Server Version 1.6 (Build 416)

Followed directions to update BIOS to the current version during the build.

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

1 GB Suddenlink cable service, Modem Motorola MB8600, Router ASUS GT-AC5300
All audio devices connected to router with Cat 7 Ethernet cables.

Audio Devices (Specify what device you’re using and its connection type - USB/HDMI/etc.)

Denon AVR-X8500H, OPPO UDP-205. Both listed to play flac files up to 192KHz. HDMI manually switched between players.

Denon firmware is current - version 7400-9193-1131-0025

Description Of Issue

MAX Sampte 192 KHz - Multi-Channel 7.1

HDMI output from NUC to OPPO then HDMI from OPPO to Denon works fine, have not detected any issues.

HDMI output from NUC to Denon will play fine for a few minutes then the audio/video starts dropping out for a second. At first this happened every few minutes but got worse and would only play normal for a few seconds in between dropouts. Then it started the dropout combined with stumbles (sound wavering).

MAX Sampte 96 KHz - Multi-Channel 7.1

HDMI output from NUC to Denon works most of the time but has occasional dropouts.

Trying to determine if the issue is with the NUC, Rock or Denon receiver. I don’t see how it would be the receiver since it plays fine with NUC HDMI to OPPO then HDMI from OPPO to Receiver. Only happens with NUC HDMI out direct to receiver.

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Hi @Mike_LC,

Can you share a screenshot of Device Setup for the Zone when using an HDMI connection directly to the Denon? Can you also share a screenshot of the Signal Path when playing to this Zone?

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Here are the screenshots requested. Device setup and signal path (different files and with/without DSP).

Had the HDMI connection going to the OPPO to avoid the issue. Changed the HDMI connection to the Denon receiver to get these screenshots. I noticed 1 dropout so far today after switching HDMI to receiver.

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On the day this problem was occurring frequently, I tried it with the Buffer Size Default, 100ms, 250ms and 500ms. It did not make any difference, dropouts continued to occur with each setting.

Not sure if the following information is of any use but, when the dropout occurs the Denon Receiver acts like it has no incoming signal from the NUC/ROCK.

When the receiver is powered up and switched to the ROCK HDMI input connection the receiver display initially has the the name of the connection, the default speaker setup SW SW2 FL FR and the word STEREO. The TV displays the Boot up OS information.

When I start the music the receiver display switches to the setting I picked, Dolby Surround and shows 9 speakers and 2 subs. The TV continues to display the Boot OS information.

When the dropout occurs the receiver switches back to the initial display, the tv screen blanks out and the music stops. That will last 1 or 2 seconds then the TV displays the Boot OS Information again, the receiver display shows Dolby Surround and the 9 speaker 2 sub setup and the music continues.

The TV always displays the Boot OS information when the receiver is set to the ROCK HDMI connection. Since it goes blank when the dropout occurs it seems like the NUC/ROCK stopped sending any signal.

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Another question for this same setup. Can I use a HDMI splitter from the NUC output to run HDMI to the Denon and OPPO without having the manually switch the Cable?

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Hi @Mike_LC,

Have you by any chance tried a different HDMI cable for the NUC -> Receiver connection? Sometimes HDMI cables go bad so I would double check this aspect.

Also, you may want to load up Roon on another PC and have it run as a Remote and verify if the behavior is the same from the other PC.

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Hi Noris. Yes I’ve tried 3 cables, 2 of them were new and all were HDMI 2.0 18gbs rated. With the HDMI connected to the OPPO then to the Denon there were no dropouts with any of the cables. With the HDMI connected directly to the receiver the dropouts did happen with each of the 3 cables.

Not sure I’m following you on using another PC. The NUC is the only device I have that can host roon with a HDMI out. The Quadro 4000 in my desktop is Display port only. I tried using a HDMI adapter from a second port on that gpu but nothing showed up on my monitor. I could not get the system up without the monitor.

I use my pc and an IPAD as a remote control points. Had the same issue using both.

I’ve had the NUC connected to the receiver and playing all day. Noticed 4 dropouts but I wasn’t in the room listening all the time. So it’s not bad today. On the day the problem was really bad it was happening so often, sometimes several times a minute, and was unusable.

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Mike - reading through this thread triggered another thought from me. It’s not the first time that there have been issues trying to get Roon working properly with a Denon + TV in a HDMI chain. See this thread for example:

And I started having problems when our old Panasonic LCD TV was changed to a new, state-of-the-art Samsung TV. Most of the time it was fine, but sometimes the Denon just would not see the Roon input. It all pointed to HDMI handshake issues caused by having a chain of devices (ROCK/NUC -> Denon -> Samsung TV). I finally cured it by a Doctor HDMI device between the NUC and the Denon. Not a cheap fix, but a quick one…

Edit: just as a thought: do you still get dropouts if you disconnect the HDMI cable between the Denon and the TV? I.e. use the Denon purely as an audio device. You may need to do a complete power-up of the Denon once the cable has been disconnected - i.e. coming out from Standby may still leave memories of the TV EDID details lurking in the Denon’s memory…

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The first things that come to mind relate to the HDMI cable. How long is it? I assume it is of the appropriate spec level.

Is the NUC and the AVR both on the same mains outlets, or different mains outlets with distance between them.

Also, is there anything switching on/off a mains device (lights, heating thermostats etc) elsewhere?

I have known HDMI devices including good AVRs to be very electrically sensitive at times.

I have also known Samsung TVs (and their BD players) to cause utter chaos with HDMI-CEC as well with some non Samsung devices.

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Geoff, I was curious if this could be related to HDCP 2.2 handshake issues. Thanks for the update. I have had the LG OLED TV on during the startup connection sequence to verify I was getting the Rock display then turning it off once the music started. Don’t need to see that now. I’ve added the Rock to Denon setup in the Logitech Harmony Elite configuration without the TV so it is no longer used. I was getting more comfortable with the Rock to Denon connection without the OPPO in the loop. I can deal with the occasional dropouts I’ve had the last few days. I decided to change out the temporary HDMI cable from Rock to Denon with the permanent HDMI cable I used from Rock to OPPO. The severe dropouts and stumbling started right away. Changed back to the temporary HDMI cable and it worked again. I’ve tried 3 different cables from Nuc to Oppo (no issues) and from Nuc to Denon (all had dropouts) but this new AudioQuest Cinnamon cable must have been the cable I was using when the worst of the dropouts occurred. Should have been taking notes. The cable is new so I should be able to replace it even though it works perfectly with the OPPO.

While reading the information from the link you provided above I noticed you said something about Multi-channel not working between NUC and Oppo over RAAT. Maybe I misunderstood what you said. I played the multi-channel 5.1 music you listed for me on another thread, it seemed to work just fine with the OPPO 7.1 output and the HDMI output. I heard the sound coming from FL Center FR LR RR and the Subs.

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Hello Adam, I have an isolated 20 amp circuit for the Media Closet and all the equipment is plugged in to a Panamax M5400-PM unit.

I think I figured out the following this morning. I’ve experienced the dropouts with 3 different HDMI cables from NUC to Denon receiver but the severe problem seems to occur with a new AudioQuest Cinnamon 6’ cable that works without issue when used from Nuc to Oppo. Will replace it and try again. For now I have a temporary cable is use and it is working but it still has infrequent dropouts, maybe once or twice an hour. I can deal with that for now. Thanks for your reply.

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I exchanged the AudioQuest Cinnamon 2M cable and the new one doesn’t work either. Same set of issues. I could see HDMI showing in the Denon display blinking off and back on before I started the music and the constant dropout started right away. Put the older unknown brand cable back in and it is working. These AQ cables are good quality and I have them connected to every HDMI device in my system, except for the NUC.

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Hi @Mike_LC,

Thanks for confirming the behavior with multiple HDMI cables. Since you have confirmed that these same cables work with the Oppo and no issues are present, this suggests that the cables are working and as is the NUC’s HDMI port, leaving only the Denon as the remaining variable. If I may ask, have you by any chance reached out to Denon regarding this issue? It may be possible that there is a firmware update which has some improvements with regard to the behavior you are describing.

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I don’t know what to think about this issue. Each piece of equipment in this case, NUC, Cable, Receiver work independent of each other just not together in the same loop. I use AudioQuest Cinnimon cables for all the devices connected to the receiver and the firmware is up to date.

I’m baffled but happy to have it working

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Hi @Mike_LC,

Thanks for the update here and for letting me know the old HDMI cable appears to be working. As far as I gather, this appears to be some kind of HDMI handshake issue between the various devices. I can’t say where exactly in the chain things are going wrong, but if things are stable with the old cable you can keep using that one.

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I can just see where that could end up:

For only $1000 - a pre-aged HDMI cable for your audio enjoyment :wink:

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I’m satisfied to have a workaround. I went ahead and bought the lifetime subscription today.

I’m retired after 40 years working with mainframe computers. Thought I had pretty much seen it all but this is the strangest set of circumstances I can recall. They all work - just not together. The cable that doesn’t work in this connection has silver content, ARC, Ethernet and is marked for signal direction. Maybe something to do with that. Fairly confident the older cable doesn’t have any of that. Perhaps a future firmware/driver update to one or the other will correct it.

I’m not selling my “$1000 pre-aged cable”. If this issue magically corrects itself it could magically return.

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Wanted to add an update that I’m not detecting any dropouts now. Originally the dropouts happened with every cable I tried, some much worse than others. For the last cable swap I removed the power from NUC and Receiver before putting the oldest cable in the loop. Not saying that had anything to do with it but have not detected a single dropout since then with hours of continued listening at night and in the mornings.

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I noticed something weird that could be causing the dropout problem. I have a USB powered LED light strip connected to the LG OLED TV that lights up when the TV is on supplying power and goes off when the TV is turned off. Last night the USB lights lit up when I turned the receiver on to the DVD HDMI setting for the NUC and queued some music up to play. The NUC boot screen would be displayed if the TV was on. The TV was not on, the USB powered lights lit up and the dropout occurred. Then the light strip went off and another dropout occurred. The light strip remained off after that and no more dropouts occurred.

Based on that weird instance it appears to be an issue with something internal to the TV USB connection attempting to draw power from HDMI when the NUC to Receiver connection activated and a signal was detected. Why the severe dropouts continued with the AudioQuest cable and not the occasional dropouts with the other cables is another matter.

I will try the AQ HDMI cable again tomorrow to see if the dropout issue has stopped with the USB light strip disconnected from the TV.

1 Like
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Hi @Mike_LC,

It does sound like a possibility here, I would definitely verify if the LED light is triggering too much power draw.