What’s all this talk about an MQA tab? It seems so contrary to the way Roon works? A “Focus” option for MQA is all we need, I would think, and yes for “Masters” albums it is badly needed.
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Focus is already available to search for downloaded MQA files we just need it to work with Tidal items in our library and for an easy way to find MQA files on Tidal.
That’s right. Well put, Philr.
“Focus” is not the same as “Folder”.
It is not “all we need”. I want something different. Something more.
I want to have the possibility of a proper folder management.
This is a wish for the future.
Out of interest what do you feel the advantage of a folder would be over bookmarked focus results or bookmarked tag filters? For the life of me I can’t think of one.
Manually maintained folders:
Create a tag for the folder you would like to create. Apply the tag to the albums or artists you would want in the folder. With a bookmark saved to the Tag view you have a quick easy way to get to it.
Smart folder:
Create a focus on content and save it as a bookmark, you then have quick access to this “smart folder”.
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It did take me a while to get used to the Focus concept. I was so used to searching for everything with folders. But Roon eschews the idea of folders by providing a new and IMO more powerful ways to find stuff. Perhaps Roon will eventually add folders, but to me it seems so unnecessary.
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I am aware of the different possibilities the focus function provides. I use it a lot…
I dont want to have that replaced or anything the like.
I started computer music streaming some 11 years ago with a first NAS sold by Linn, with all their Music on back then.
My collection has grown quite a lot over the years and I started with folder management from the very beginning. That system remained in place more or less. I have no complaints about Roon, as I use it daily and like it alot.
Simply additional folder management possibilities would make life easier for me.
As my grown structure is also used by other programs, usually to access music in format not available in Roon, a change in my structure means a lot of work.
Thats why a proper folder management is on my wishlist.
Many of us (and the Roon team) resist the folder concept and this is part of a prevailing trend in the computer industry for managing all kinds of content. You see this in many other systems.
We observed that it is easier to find things in the global internet than on our own computers. In the case of music, a search on Amazon is much easier and quicker than navigating your own folders. And as search became more widespread, we abandoned folders. For example, mail systems like Outlook have folders but few use them anymore, we use search instead. And for common lookups, we use “smart folders” or bookmarks as a way to pre-package searches.
Some of us also object to having to act as librarians, carefully filing things away in the right folder.
But it isn’t just that folders are inconvenient, they are actively harmful. The main problem is that an item can be in only one folder, and once you put it there it is difficult to find it under a different perspective. I recently downloaded a recording of Beethoven sonatas produced by Audio High, and I might want to put it in a Classical folder, or in a Piano Sonatas folder (which may or may not be a subfolder of Classical, there are avant-garde sonatas), or I may file it under the artist Robert Silverman, or under MQA, or under Special Downloads or even under Audio High (good to keep track of where I bought it in case the file is lost or damaged and I need to log in and get a fresh copy), or under Recent, or under 2016/November/12. Which is right?
What we need is a “polyarchy” where an item can be classified in multiple ways and looked up equally easily under each. This is what Roon aims to do. And it largely achieves it, although there are some rough edges that are being sandpapered.
This is why you see resistance to the folder concept. It isn’t just inconvenient, it is harmful.
Yes, you spent effort organizing things in folders. So did I. That is sunk cost, we move on.
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Its a wish of mine. No need for resistance.
I would be happy if this is under consideration in the future.
If not, its no big problem neither.
I would not like to see the actual conception of Roon changed because of the folder concept.
I think more of an additional possibility, without influencing the actual concept.
I simply dont have the time at disposal to reorganise tbs of data now and in the near future.
Like I said before: I am a daily and most of the time satisfied user of Roon.
This is the thing with Roon. You don’t need to re organise anything. Point it at your folders and it will do the rest.
It’s the letting go that’s not easy I suppose.
Thoughts, Chris
It depends on your folder structure. How many folders you have.
Right now Roon doesnt like too many of them. It starts to crash.
Thats why a reorganisation would be necessary.
My personal opinion is that in software architecture you need to decide very clearly what NOT to do if you want to make what you do strong, scalable, maintainable. People develop all sorts of habits when tools where not great - understandably. I would say folders is one of the most common of such habits.
I, to be perfectly honest, am against adding a multitude of overlapping features that make software more complex that they need to be. I would say frankly that JRiver is one such piece of software that does a lot of things, and many things not in a great way. YMMV.
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JRiver is for me something totally different.
It includes Audio, Video and other stuff and thats why it ran out of proportions over time as the interface didnt grow with demands.
But that is not the case with Roon.
I dont see how folder managment would do harm to Roon’s actual concept or mutate it into something as JRiver.
Is it possible in Roon to query for the physical location of a file? Ie dynamic metadata with the file path. Maybe this plus smart folders would work? If what you want is moving files between folders, I really don’t think that belongs in Roon.
An intermediate solution might be implementing bookmark organization with folders just as in a browser.
We talked about this in this topic Bookmark folders
Are you talking about creating folders and managing them in Roon or access to view your existing folder structure?
The 1st offers nothing that Roon doesn’t already, in fact it would most likely make things worst, the second I could see being useful for people that have already used folders at the file system as a way to get around proper tagging.
In all honesty I see the folder mentality as one of the hardest things to ween people off of. Sharepoint document libraries are a good example: Any company that migrates to Sharepoint for document management most likely sees their users creating folders like they would on a file system instead of populating metadata and leveraging the power of Sharepoint.
I think more has to be done with bookmarks and bookmark management for sure. A big long list of bookmarks can easily get out of hand the way they are implemented right now.
I am thinking one could be able to define a formulaic tag. For example a tag that captures the directory name of a track, or the level above for example. This would be in line with the Roon paradigm and would allow you to create some sort of folder views.
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I am talking about that second point you made.
I repeat: Overcoming the “folder mentality” is something I really have no problem with.
If I start a music collection now I would never do it that way again. But back then it was somehow necessary, and it grew over time. Tools like Roon where not available.
Now I lack time to reorganise all my music which is distributed in a couple of NAS and in many folders.
An allowed folder structure would be helpful to access all my music. Right now thats not possible because Roon want allow too many watched folders. It got better with the 64bit version…
Can’t you just merge some folders into one.