Hi Andrew. I never accused anyone of being dishonest. In reply to your thought about Slow Mode being an automatic action by the software, I suggested it had occurred manually, which according to the post by Ace, it did. I also suggested why, which again is confirmed in that post. So no dishonesty by Roon at all. And no accusation by me. The Mod said what he did and why he did it. Not so? Do I like it…no. But it ain’t my forum or company. And the subject of this thread is way more important than this side show. Aloha!
No!
10 characters
1 Like
Sorry, I don’t fully understand… You mean Roon 2.0 sounds better? Or do you mean MinimServer 2?
…Mosaic sounds better…suspect due to its limited resource demands, sounds. to my ears, easier, more clearly detailed than ROON.
1 Like
Based on comments from Roon, I think it’s Roon’s intention to migrate most/all functionality to the cloud, hence this step in 2.0 to require full time internet access. IMO, this is not good for those of us with significant local file collections. 
If I am correct, I don’t see Roon changing their position on the full time internet requirement as it would be contrary to their future plans. I hope I’m wrong and Roon does make a change to allow us access to our local libraries without full time internet access, but I don’t see it based on all the comments so far from Roon.
1 Like
It does show up using those criteria. I guess you just have to know the secret handshake.
Sarcasm aside. If it does’t show up in the topics listed then how would anyone know to look for it?
Dear all,
Many have voiced their concerns and comments to Roon team about this issue. Some have raised this issued quite hardly, myself included. But, to give credits to Roon and its support team, they have been working hard, especially with the release this big. I read some other threads in this forum yesterday evening where the support team and even the higher-rank officials at Roon were working to solve issues from many users in this forum.
I too posted some question about another issue regarding the downgrade to 1.8 Legacy and my post was responded promptly by Roon, which is a big thumb up for them especially at this time with so many other things going on.
So, I hope we all could calm down. I am sure this has been a very stressful week for Roon and some of us.The weekend is coming. Hopefully, Roon team could get some good rests if that is still possible with the release this big and many support issues that have arisen or will arise.
Our voices have been heard by them. Hopefully, and I am quite positive about this, that Roon team would do some clear thinking and analyze the whole situation and give us a good solution.
Cheers everybody. Best regards.
3 Likes
I think you and I use Roon differently. I don’t stream–I only use Roon to listen to my ripped CD collection from my server. Now with the new changes, for some reason need to be connected to the Internet all the time to ask Roon for permission to listen to an album I bought 30 years ago? I find that absurd.
I’m not usually the person who says this, but people are being conditioned to need corporate permission to use their own property, in return for a trivial amount of convenience, and it’s all kind of screwed up.
10 Likes
The search still works with less search criteria but you get a longer list to work with. There’s more likely to be an issue/bug with the Discourse software, if posts were deleted they wouldn’t (shouldn’t) be visible even under search conditions.
For the members whose posts I just merged here (and any other concerned citizens) if you look at the top of the thread where the small “s” is you might find it says muted.
Myself and others did see this and changing to normal or tracking allowed it to be visible again as per normal.
This may or may not be a side effect of being in slow mode but I honestly have never seen this behavior before.
So no conspiracy theories required 
6 Likes
So there may be bug to report to Discourse here?
I think that you are correct, I have a main system in my study that I use for critical listening from my ripped CD’s/hi-res files and then I have just recently integrated Roon to stream across the apartment within my intranet for more casual access to music.
I hope that your needs can be resolved as soon as possible and I hope that I haven’t added to your stress about this matter.
I voted on the feature suggestion posted above. If people view this as important, it’s worth voting this up! I can certainly understand the amount of additional work it takes Roon to make their software resilient to outages, and behave correctly. However, I’d hate to be without local music if I have an ISP outage, or any other scenario where I may not have internet for a semi-extended period of time.
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/make-roon-play-local-music-files-w-o-internet-access/214998
3 Likes
I think this post was guaranteed to make a few people angry 
Local software and local files are the main feature for some people, including myself. In this initial statement, it’s really not obvious why the change was necessary, and the phrase “substantial period of time” could mean anything. I appreciate much more the later clarifications that begin to address these. I think very many people in these forums are techy enough that this sort of message should be the tldr to a much fuller story.
I think the most important question is “How do we listen to our music with no internet?” Can we easily switch to 1.8 if 2.0 goes down, to provide a fallback? As far as I can tell, 1.8 will need to make a similar connection for its first startup, so it wouldn’t work except in a planned outage. Is there a solution for this?
I’m pretty interested in how this unified engine might work that it couldn’t continue to work if online sources were simply treated as empty if they became unavailable. The only reason I can think of is that Roon now transfers data from the local music database to the unified engine running as an online service. So beyond the inconvenience when the home internet goes down, does this also mean that if some server goes down the other side of the world, we can’t listen to local files? With internet latency it would also be debatable if it makes it faster. Perhaps I’m mistaken…
In principle I appreciate that you’ve got to abandon some things to make future development easier. But this is still a bit too vague to be comforting, because you don’t specify what upcoming things this sacrifice was for, and it doesn’t really make sense (without further detail) why there’s no fallback left in place when you evidently have local search code that does the job and presumably already has automated test coverage so not a huge thing to maintain.
This change will affect me a bit I’m sure, but it’s not enough of a problem to put me off what is still a great bit of software I use all the time, and it’s really commendable to be at all open about internal architecture. But the change does put a little unease in my mind - what will be the next sacrifice for unidentified ‘progress’? Move entirely to the cloud? Adverts between tracks? Drop local file support? Well, if there’s a market… so long as it’s in very much separate products, fine with me. I just hope ‘local only’ users will always be considered worth providing for.
4 Likes
Earlier this evening I tried to change it from Muted to Normal, but it wouldn’t let me (iPad 7th gen, iOS 15.7).
@danny how long will 1.8 be around for? I’m a little stunned. I’ve been asking in other threads for there to be less stringent license checking as I get punished far too often as a paying software user with buggy license transfers between cores.
1 Like
I also voted in favor of Roon restoring access to my personally owned and locally stored music without the need for continuous internet access.
Given the speed at which this topic has accumulated comments on this forum and others, I have very likely missed some relevant content, so apologies if I’m addressing moot points or repeating points already addressed, but a few observations at a higher level and with a longer term view…
- There is likely a “lessons learned” opportunity here in terms of how feature requests are evaluated and then prioritized for work. It’s one thing customers to ask “do you want feature X” in the absence of an associated cost or consequences. It’s more informative to ask “do you want feature X if it impacts existing capabilities A, B and C”. Perhaps this was done already and wasn’t enough to alter the approach, but for the record, I very definitely would accept less ideal search to continue enjoying the ability to play my locally stored music without any external dependencies.
- From a developer’s perspective, I understand the appeal of moving functionality to the cloud, but I would suggest that this should not be done lightly and that you need to consider the implications over a very long time horizon, including beyond the current team’s own involvement. In particular, I hope that you’ve hired dedicated information security experts to assess both the architecture and software itself, and consider how to manage the use of customer information involved in enabling this approach.
- I’d suggest that more transparency is needed in terms of what data is exchanged between customer systems and Roon’s cloud services. Certainly I’d encourage this to be minimized and not in any way tied to our account information. For example, when I search my local database, does the search request hit your cloud servers with my license or any other identifying information attached? Is it encrypted? Do you retain that information? If so, why, how long do you keep that data, in what country do you keep that data, and how is it protected?
a) Yes, I see your privacy policy statement that “Information about how our members use Roon is not transferred or stored with any member’s personal data” but I also note that your policy has not been updated with the release of Roon 2.0. (It’s still dated May of 21.)
b) Yes, I know that it’s “just music”, but in the era of big data and machine learning, it’s not “just” anything any more. At least, it has the potential to be more at some point. (Think about the sophistication that psychological profiling has achieved “just” by being fed our online purchase histories.) Remember that by moving information to the cloud, you’re asking us to trust both your intent and execution not just today, but to trust you and your eventual successors intent and execution forever more. - Similar to (3), I’d suggest that more transparency regarding how our local networks are penetrated to enable these services would also be helpful. I’m not an network security expert, but I pay attention to how my network is configured, what services are running on it, and what external access they need. I’ve avoided many products and services because I determined them to be insecure, or insufficient information was available to make this determination.
a) Like many, I blindly upgraded because I had long since come to trust Roon. Had I better appreciated the full scope of this very fundamental architectural change, I would have asked these questions in advance.
The takeaway here is that the fundamental shift away from using local services to manage our local music is not just the functional consideration that has been well characterized by others, but also requires a significant privacy and information/data security assessment.
(To be clear, I’m not a fan of the functional dependence on internet connectivity either - I just don’t feel the need to reiterate others’ points. The one subtlety that I didn’t see mentioned yet is that we need to remember that this architectural change added not just one new single point of failure - our personal internet connections - but two. The second is Roon’s own cloud service reliability. The end-to-end system resiliency math needs to multiply those together. I’m sure the probability is low, but imagine the reaction when Roon’s cloud services eventually experience an outage…)
A final comment… I don’t currently have time for forum posts such as this. The fact that I’m doing so reflects just how much I’ve enjoyed and respected the product for years, and the fact that I really do want to see it continue to flourish. These comments are offered in the hopes that they prove constructive. Thank you!
7 Likes
The decision that the Core needs an internet connection at all times stuns me.
I am a lifetime member and you make the product unusable for me in many situations - overnight. Why all this? I’m disappointed.
Daniel
2 Likes
It’s unlikely to affect me that much personally but I can understand the frustration for anyone who has been using Roon without internet until now. I hope something is done about it. There’s a thread where you can add your vote to show your support for this issue.
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/make-roon-play-local-music-files-w-o-internet-access/214998/32
1 Like
I don’t quite understand this. Does this mean that I won’t be able to use Roon when my internet is down? I’d like to be able to access my local library regardless of my internet connection.
1 Like