With all the concern that is demonstrated by Roon for shutdowns that might impact the integrity of the Roon database, it would seem appropriate to have a hook for UPS software, so that when a power failure is detected Roon could be shutdown gracefully.
I don’t believe Roon specifically need this. The OS monitors the UPS, and when it does shutdown, it will stop Roon as part of stopping the system. Certainly this works on Linux-based Roon Cores. I assume Roon Core is a Windows system service on WIndows systems, so will also work there. No idea about a Mac host, though.
If that’s the case, then everyone who can should be running their Core machine on a UPS.
It seems that in the past, a Windows update has been accused of causing an improper shutdown that resulted in Roon library corruption.
I’ve been meaning to ask support about Windows’ shutdowns, so now’s the time.
@support, when Windows shuts down, either to do an update or as a normal shutdown, does it gracefully shutdown Roon?
Has any type of Windows shutdown ever been implicated in a corrupted Roon library?
Yeah, that’s what I do.
My ROCK is on a UPS, and that UPS is backed by a whole-house propane generator. That’s how strong my commitment to Roon database integrity is.
Seriously, I back mine up every night, and not much except play counts change day to day, so if I had to restore from a backup, it wouldn’t be too much a of a problem.
Think so, do ya?
My Backup schedule. I check my backups every day. Of course, that doesn’t ensure that I haven’t been backing up a corrupted library for so long that all my backups are infected.
The problem is that, although you think you’re safe because you conscientiously perform Roon backups, until the above two referenced errors are fixed then one never knows how good a backup is until one has to do a Restore.
I also use a UPS, manufactured by APC. However, the integrity of the backups is another issue which a UPS won’t necessarily resolve. It’s all about reducing risk.
I’ve been lazy. Need to power my core through the UPS.
I used to have my Win10 core on UPS but not with any UPS monitoring to shutdown as my NAS has the USB connection. Maybe need to get a NUTS client going
No UPS hooks available for Roon OS versions of course either.
In summer I shutdown my Core PC every night, I just use the normal Windows 10 shutdown and let Windows deal with stuff.
Never had a problem , it does take about 90 sec for all disc activity to stop ,by comparison my wife’s PC shuts dow in seconds so I assume something “graceful” is happening
That’s a serious issue, Slim. I had no idea.
As far as backing up a corrupted library, from the posts I’ve seen from Roon, I believe that will be addressed (eventually).
As far as Backup indicating that a backup was successful and then not being able to find the backup, so far I’ve seen nothing but the shrugging of shoulders from Roon.
Are you implying that Roon hooks are needed for the UPS software to gracefully shutdown Roon or is it (as @cwichura states) that the UPS software will shutdown Windows gracefully which will, in turn, shutdown Roon gracefully?
As they a locked down OS’s then no option is available to add a process to monitor the UPS
Right, for those running their Roon core on Windows Linux Mac (and many NAS), you can install software to monitor the UPS and turn your machine off via the normal shutdown procedure in the even of a power failure. I think everyone who has a machine running data that they care about should have this setup.
However, ROCK (nor Nucleus) does not monitor UPS, so, for those systems in the event of a power loss, you would need to get to the machine and turn it off before the UPS backup runs out, or else, it will turn off without going through the proper shutdown procedure. Thus, running a risk of corruption.
It is indeed very worrying and I remain surprised that it hasn’t received more attention. I’m just grateful to @Slim_Fishguttz for highlighting the issue a while back as it forced me to rethink my backup regime.
Re the backup issue, I wonder whether the issue lies in the Roon OS writing to the backup media, rather than in Roon per se.
I say this, because for years now, my ROCK/NUC has been writing to a 120 GB SSD attached via USB. It’s always been working, according to Roon; the backups have been written, and older backups removed according to the schedule.
A few weeks ago, I removed the SSD from the NUC, and plugged it into my Windows desktop PC to check it. Windows said that it needed repair, so I let it go ahead and do this. On completion, I put the SSD back with the NUC, and it’s been continuing to take Roon backups without a murmur - just like it always had done.
It’s true, I haven’t tested a Restore for a long time now. Perhaps I should.
Since the only way for a Core machine that runs a Roon OS to avoid a potential power loss related library corruption is for the customer to turn off the machine before the UPS battery runs out, there seems to be little incentive for anyone to use a UPS for those devices.
In Backup problem #1, Roon will continue to backup a library that has ‘latent corruption’ until all good backups have rolled of the end.
In Backup problem #2, Roon says it has successfully backed up and yet subsequently can’t find it’s backup. Yes, that could be a reflection of the backup media, although I doubt it, but if Roon says it has successfully backed up then one should be able to take that as it stands.
Since Roon has supplied a recommended backup procedure and will not guarantee any Restore that doesn’t use a Roon Backup dataset, then these problems are Roon problems, regardless of what media is being used.
I don’t understand Roon’s seemingly laissez faire attitude as to the integrity of the major component of the entire Roon charter.
It’s not critical, so it doesn’t need a ups, but it does need a mechanism that doesn’t corrupt the database if it goes down unexpectedly. And a solid backup. Thanks @Slim_Fishguttz for raising awareness and keeping the pressure on! Hopefully this gets looked at soon.