Search to play time delay

Support
48

Below is an example of a forum reply from Roon in response to user contributions detailing search delays which are, as ar as I can see, identical to what I’m experiencing. Not sure abt the dates of the varios posts but at least 4 or more months old and the problem is still unresolved…

From User [John_Mesberg]: …> What does detract from my experience is the extremely erratic search performance (sometimes virtually instantaneous and sometimes takes 40-60 secs). I’ve never seen anything quite like this (I have 21 years in software and recently retired as a software exec from IBM). I don’t know anything about Roon’s tech stack but something is seriously wrong with their search implementation.

My only real question to the community is “has Roon acknowledged the problem and committed to work on it in a future release”?

…Brian … We have another project in flight to multiply the capacity of our search backend by 2-3x and design a faster and better indexing process. This will help the speed of new releases getting into the search index. In parallel, we are also working on the latency of new releases showing up in Roon in general, both by coordinating with upstream providers, and by re-organizing some of our internal processes. The difference will be substantial once all of that work flows through. The larger-capacity search backend will also enable us to make the searches themselves more expensive–enabling us to re-attempt fuzzy matching, or otherwise improving the queries/results quality by spending more compute resources per search.

There are a collection of smaller projects related to search–building a better benchmark for search results quality, and tracking down a few minor bugs. This stuff is also in flight.

There is so much going on here that I’m sure I’m forgetting something…these infrastructure/backend projects take a lot of time and do not make for splashy product releases, but we have to do them. Roon has to get faster, and it has to do that while our user base continues to grow rapidly, and without breaking too much along the way. Not an easy problem, but one that has consumed a lot of our attention in the past few months. …

49

Hi @George_Evans,

Just to be clear, the delay you’re seeing is strictly with the playback of TIDAL content in Roon, correct?

My understanding is the following:

  • Pressing play on TIDAL content takes 30s-40s to get started
  • Once playback has started, the queue will progress without delays
  • If you manually choose another track, the delay will return
  • This doesn’t occur for local content

This is a bit different than what is reported in the link you shared. The reported issue there is related to searching for content in Roon. Some users were reporting that, after hitting enter on the search box, it would take a long time before any results were displayed in Roon — Not about a delay in the playback of streaming content.

Since the initial reports that you’ve shared above, there have also been many changes to our back-end services that have improved search speeds for most users.

As Mike mentioned above, we did not release any new versions of Roon during the time period that this started occurring. We also are not seeing widespread reports of the same behavior you’re seeing.

Generally, when we’ve seen this issue in the past, this has been related to an issue on the Core machine or an issue with the network. I know things were working for you previously, but as mentioned, there were not any Roon updates around the time this started happening.

What we don’t know, however, is whether or not there was a change somewhere in your setup. It’s possible that networking equipment received updates, or perhaps there was a Windows update that changed things. We’ve also seen that failing cables or hardware somewhere along the line can contribute to these issues as well. So, we know that there wasn’t a change in Roon, but these troubleshooting steps will help us rule our other potential variables in your setup.

Google DNS is definitely a good place to start since, as mentioned, we’ve seen this help others who experienced TIDAL performance issues in Roon. It may also be a good test to try out a different Core machine completely, if you have one available that you can use in a test.

50

Right I changed to Google DNS as per video link [ 8.8.8.8 & 8.8.4.4 ] but unfortunately the delays persist makes no difference. I double checked the changed settings twice.

I did try to use another PC but Roon permission objected as I can only use 1 PC or core … I didn’t want to mess-up so did not pursue it.

My understanding is the following:
• Pressing play on TIDAL content takes 30s-40s to get started
• Once playback has started, the queue will progress without delays
• If you manually choose another track, the delay will return
• This doesn’t occur for local content

YES that is the correct understanding

BTW I have no control over Windows updates or any other update for that matter that happens behind the scenes that is not my problem. The Roon platform should be resilient or bullet proof in this respect otherwise it will never work. No point in passing the buck to others the issue is strictly between your customer base and Roon.

What we don’t know, however, is whether or not there was a change somewhere in your setup

Certainly NOT instigated ME, as I keep saying, in terms of any hardware changes or settings. Nothing at all.

51

Hi @George_Evans,

Your Roon license can only be used on one Core machine at a time, but you can move between Core machines as often as you’d like. It would definitely be good to know how things work if you authorize a different Core machine and give it a try with TIDAL.

52

Please elaborate how to move between machines ?

53

Hi @George_Evans,

When you log in to Roon on another Core machine, you’ll receive a message that states that Roon is already authorized on a different Core. There will be an option to unauthorize the current active Core. If you choose this, it will allow you to use the new Core. You can switch back and forth at any time.

54

OK thanks I’ll try when my wife is not using it … its a new HP LT running windows 10 as well

55

Update … Google search time has improved after a few hours I’ll keep checking let you know

Yes further checks suggest its much better ! After a few hours

56

Hi @George_Evans,

I’m glad to hear that Google DNS seems to have improved things here! Definitely keep us updated on this.

57

Alas not … it appeared to briefly improve last night but this morning 20 30s delays are back.

However the Google DNS has definitely improved general browsing speed.

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Using another PC

Well ….

I fired up the other LT and the delays don’t occur (!) I’m back on my own PC and the delays persist.

What is going on then? Is it worthwhile reinstalling Roon?

59

Hi @George_Evans,

Thank you for trying this out. That’s definitely a good data point for our troubleshooting. Was there any difference in how the new PC was connected to the network compared to the original PC?

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No identical in every way just connected the other PC with the same ethernet cable to same router port everything else SotM etc the same.

Would reinstalling Roon help you think?

61

Hi @George_Evans,

Yes, let’s try giving Roon a reinstall on this PC. Let’s try with a completely fresh database as well, to start.

  1. Make a backup of Roon so we can restore this later — It’s very important that you make sure you have a backup available to restore later
  2. Uninstall Roon including database settings
  3. Reinstall Roon
  4. Log in to Roon and connect to TIDAL without restoring the backup
  5. Test using TIDAL in Roon with this new install and let us know how it performs
62

Actually I uninstalled Roon about an hour ago and reinstalled it but the issue persists…local files fine but Tidal streaming incurs the delays. I have no structured stored music in Roon yet. I used Win 10 uninstaller but on reinstalling every thing reappeared as normal how do you delete the database?

As Roon is OK on the other PC I’m trying to find out whats wrong with my machine but I’m having problems installing TeamViewer to get support. I get a message that it cant reach the site securely or cant access the site.

Please advise how to back up DB.

What minimum PC spec do you recommend to run Roon ?
thanks

63

Hi @George_Evans,

Making a backup

We have instructions here in our KB.

If you go to Settings > Backups you can create a backup file to restore later using the instructions linked above.

Delete the database

  • Make a Backup of your current Roon Database
  • Exit out of Roon
  • Navigate to your Roon’s Database Location
  • Find the folder that says “Roon”
  • Rename the “Roon” folder to “Roon_old”
  • Restart/Reinstall the Roon App to generate a new Roon folder

Recommended Specs

The requirements can vary depending on the size of your database and how many features you’re using (i.e. using DSP and streaming to multiple zones at once will require more power, especially with a larger database), but we recommend for a basic setup that your Core meets these requirements.

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Please refer to the setup diagram I sent. Not all Laptops provided an Ethernet sockets which I believe if the better way to interface with a router?

Can you suggest a specific machine that meets all the basic requirements without going OTT?

If after performing the Roon DB removal and un/reinstalling Roon the problem persists then I must decide on the latter option.

I shall re-authorize the other LT and run Roon on it for a few days just to see it remains stable in the longer term. ( as my PC did for 4 months or so)

65

Hi @George_Evans,

This will definitely be a good test — Knowing if things continue to perform well here will help to confirm that the issue was stemming from the Core.

If you decide to go the route of using another Core machine, we generally don’t recommend specific hardware, and it really depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a dedicated music server, we have the Nucleus, which is made by us. If you’re willing to do some DIY work, you can build a ROCK machine.

If you’re wanting to stick with a Windows machine, anything that meets our requirements I shared previously should work for you.

66

I did a total Roon reinstall last night including the DB but it did not help at all so I reinstated the backup because I have the few MQA downloads from 2L. Those files play perfectly.

I’ll proceed to use the HP machine before I decide on getting a dedicated core PC

I checked out the Nucleus is it compatible with SoTM ? I presume it requires a monitor and keybooad …
which a dediacted Laptop would provide in a single package.

67

Hi @George_Evans,

I appreciate you giving the reinstall a try. Since things are not working even with a fresh install, something about the Core machine definitely seems to be the issue here. Please keep us updated on how the testing goes with the other Core machine.

The SoTM is a network bridge, correct? Can you confirm the exact model? There shouldn’t be any difference between how this device works with any Core machine, but I can confirm if I have the exact model device you’re using.

No need for a monitor and keyboard with Nucleus. The Nucleus is designed to be a headless dedicated server for Roon. You can control Nucleus from any device that can run Roon as a remote, including your current laptop, but the heavy lifting processes will be handled by Nucleus.