The Doors Perception Box Set

Support
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Roon Core Machine

Apple Mac Mini, Intel chip, MacOS 12.x, 8 GB RAM, WAV library on external 4TB drive(s).

Networking Gear & Setup Details

No VPN

Wi-Fi is an Eero Mesh, v 6 something. No issues there.

Connected Audio Devices

Sonos systems, Oppo UHD205, various Apple devices, iPhones etc.

Number of Tracks in Library

150,000 tracks approx.

Description of Issue

I have the Doors “Perception” 6-disc set on my server. Roon persists in misidentifying the order of the discs, and when I correct them manually (which is a pain!), Roon shows garbage data (replicated names, etc). I have tried breaking the set apart, renaming the folders, nothing seems to work.

How can I delete this box set and start over again?

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Just delete them as you normally would. Copy, not move, the files somewhere first to avoid having to rerip them.

I think if you make a main folder and place the individual discs underneath and label them Disc 1, Disc 2, etc. that will do what you want.

I’m not at my Core machine right now, but as I remember that strategy worked for me with a Miles Davis box set of CDs.

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I tried that - Disc 1, Disc 2 and so on. Even moved the entire structure to a different location and pulled it in as a new library. No dice.

The set is the 6 original Doors albums, extended with alternate takes, outtakes etc. On the actual CDs, the titles are ‘Perception Disc 1’ and the original album title, etc. Roon does not even come close to identifying them, and I cannot figure it out. The set is correctly shown in Discogs, the track lengths are spot on, give or take a few seconds here and there.

I was thinking that somehow there is a cache in Roon that needs to be erased to start the ID process over?

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Yeah, now that I think about it, although it worked for Miles Davis, I never could get a 3 disc box set of ‘The Pyramids’ to clump together.

OTOH, an 11 disc set of Shostakovich symphonies fell right into place.

I think it has something to do with the way they are tagged on the CDs.

Dunno.

I guess if you want to erase some cache, a restart of Core would do that. I don’t think that’s the problem, tho.

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I managed to correct a similar problem on the Blue Guitars boxset with the “merge album” and “fix track” functions. Chris Rea Blue Guitars 11 CD’s and the Roon database don’t go along well

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OK, so here is what DID work.

I created a second set of folders for the Doors Perception on a second drive, and left the original box set in the main library intact. Lo and behold, Roon identified the second set correctly. Then I deleted the first set (the screwed up one), thinking that would resolve the issue: it did not. The instant I deleted the first set, Roon rescanned the second one, and that one got messed up. So finally I resolved to have two copies - one I can play, the other I ignore (the Roon messed up one), until Roon support can figure this out. I am convinced that there is a persistent cache somewhere, but no amount of rebooting seems to matter.

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I think the problem is with the tags on the ripped CDs or the way the ripped CDs are internally titled. The files’ names mean nothing in this context.

Try a tag editor on your ripped files.

I must doubt this theory.

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The problem isn’t with the Doors’ box set - the problem is with box sets in Roon in general. There are multiple posts about this. Hopefully Roon can implement a solution soon.

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Yes, agreed, but until Roon fixes what’s (in general) wrong, I am trying to suggest a way for the OP to get where he wants.

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I have an excellent tag editor and I have laboriously set all the metadata to what it should be. That does not help.

As I said, the only solution is to have two copies of the box set. One is correct, the other is garbage.

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By the way I had lots of issues with my Miles Davis box sets (Bitches Brew Sessions, Miles Davis & Gil Evans Complete Columbia collection) too, but nothing like the Doors.

The frustrating thing is that the collections are all on Discogs, track timing is correct, but Roon is somehow pulling the wrong info.

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If you are bringing up Discogs as a way for Roon to verify a box set, then I don’t believe Discogs has an interface to allow that, or that that would be legal without paying some usage fee.

If you are bringing up Discogs as an example of software that gets it right, I think that most of the info on Discogs is user entered or at least checked by some moderator. Roon is (trying) to do it automatically.

If your complaint is that Roon’s manual procedures are inadequate, then I agree.

In this regard, the question is, how would Audirvana or JShiver automatically (or manually) handle your example. I have to believe that Roon’s devs are as clever as the devs for those players.

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Hi Laurence,

You may have done something like this already, but in similar situations this has often sorted things for me:

  • move (all copies of) the box set out of your watched folders;
  • clean-up your library data (via Main menu - Library - Clean up library);
  • move a copy back into your watched folders and cross your fingers :crossed_fingers:.

If the box set is very large and or the mechanism for moving / copying your files over fairly slow, it can be worth stopping Roon Server while moving / copying the files into your watched folders, to prevent Roon trying to identify albums too early. Hardly had to do this in recent years, but worth a try.

Alternatively / additionally, have a play with what things look like if you un-identify the album (if it is still screwed up), and/or try to identify a correct match manually, assuming there is one.

Apologies for wasting your time if you have been through all that already. Good luck!

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Thanks Tonedeaf …

I’ll try your suggestion, although I think I’ve done all that … perhaps the “cleanup” once the Doors discs are off-line might work.

1 Like
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Actually, Discogs as an “aggregation” of data is pretty good. They are constantly making small adjustments, the contributors are usually fanatical collectors, so yes, I think the Discogs listing are pretty accurate, and seeing as I own the actual box set, I can attest to the Discogs accuracy in this case.

I am not suggesting an interface for Roon, however, there is a pretty comprehensive metadata scraper called SongKong that uses MusicBrainz and Discogs (plus others) and comes up with excellent results - at least as good as Roon, anyway. I have used SongKong when all I had was “unknown artist”, “unknown album” and “Track 01, Track 02 …” to successfully identify an artist, album, artwork AND track names from the album’s fingerprints (track lengths).

Roon’s editing capabilities are inadequate, and although it is pretty god at identifying album, there could be some improvement in their metadata scraping.

This Doors problem is a bug, in my opinion. Hopefully someone from Roon is actually monitoring these threads …

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Actually, I think you’re spot on here. I found this “work around” myself with several box sets and also “meshed up” single albums. So far it resolved all my issues - in conjunction with the “merge albums” function. IMO this can be placed in the knowledge base…

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