Tidal Playback Skipping Entire Tracks

Support
1

I’ve had a Tidal issue off and on for a while. I’ll be playing local tracks for a while, then switch to a Tidal album by clicking Play Now for the whole album. Often the first track is skipped. It finally bugged me enough to look at the logs and I don’t see anything that helps me.

The only thing that sticks out is this: TIDAL: tidal_account_error

Anyone see anything here that could point to the issue?

02/06 14:09:29 Info: [stats] 5213mb Virtual, 720mb Physical, 165mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:09:44 Info: [stats] 5213mb Virtual, 720mb Physical, 167mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:09:59 Info: [stats] 5213mb Virtual, 720mb Physical, 169mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:10:14 Info: [stats] 5213mb Virtual, 721mb Physical, 171mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:10:29 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 177mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:10:44 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 180mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:10:59 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 182mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:11:14 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 183mb Managed, 37 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:11:29 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 185mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:11:33 Debug: [volumewatcher] ev_VolumeChanged DidMount: /private/var/folders/zz/zyxvpxvq6csfxvn_n0000000000000/T/FPInstallMountPoint
02/06 14:11:33 Debug: [broker/filebrowser/volumeattached] found newly mounted drive at /private/var/folders/zz/zyxvpxvq6csfxvn_n0000000000000/T/FPInstallMountPoint
02/06 14:11:34 Debug: [volumewatcher] ev_VolumeChanged DidUnmount: /private/var/folders/zz/zyxvpxvq6csfxvn_n0000000000000/T/FPInstallMountPoint
02/06 14:11:34 Debug: [broker/filebrowser/volumeattached] lost mounted drive at /private/var/folders/zz/zyxvpxvq6csfxvn_n0000000000000/T/FPInstallMountPoint, but we don't care
02/06 14:11:44 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 187mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:11:59 Info: [stats] 5214mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 188mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:12:14 Info: [stats] 5215mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 190mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:12:29 Info: [stats] 5215mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 191mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:12:44 Info: [stats] 5215mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 193mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:12:59 Info: [stats] 5215mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 195mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:13:14 Info: [stats] 5215mb Virtual, 722mb Physical, 197mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:13:29 Debug: UI-FWD: mode: albumdetails
02/06 14:13:29 Debug: GMS: saving nav stack
02/06 14:13:29 Debug: UI-NAV: album details / album: [object Sooloos_Broker_Api_AlbumLite_Proxy] / bookmarkdata: 
02/06 14:13:29 Debug: GMS: done saving nav stack
02/06 14:13:29 Info: [stats] 5221mb Virtual, 724mb Physical, 206mb Managed, 38 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:13:31 Info: Alert: TIDAL: tidal_account_error
02/06 14:13:44 Info: [stats] 5218mb Virtual, 725mb Physical, 209mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:13:59 Info: [stats] 5219mb Virtual, 726mb Physical, 210mb Managed, 36 Threads,  FDs 
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat] [sood] Refreshing device list
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat/logdump] connecting to Data Conversion Systems Ltd Network Bridge @ 10.0.1.60:52425
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat/logdump] connecting to Data Conversion Systems Ltd Rossini DAC @ 10.0.1.200:54862
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat/logdump] connected to Data Conversion Systems Ltd Rossini DAC @ 10.0.1.200:54862
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat/logdump] connected to Data Conversion Systems Ltd Network Bridge @ 10.0.1.60:52425
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat/logdump] got log from Data Conversion Systems Ltd Network Bridge @ 10.0.1.60:52425
02/06 14:14:10 Trace: [raat/logdump] got log from Data Conversion Systems Ltd Rossini DAC @ 10.0.1.200:54862
02/06 14:14:13 Error: while snapshotting file, , for support pkg: System.ArgumentNullException: Value cannot be null.
Parameter name: path2
  at System.IO.Path.Combine (System.String path1, System.String path2) [0x00011] in <48b95f3df5804531818f80e28ec60191>:0 
  at Sooloos.Support.SupportPackage._SnapshotToTempDir (System.String tmpdir, System.Collections.Generic.List`1[T] tmpfiles, System.String path) [0x00000] in /Users/roon/roon/RoonApp/support.cs:848
2

I see Rossini in your log. Are you sure it’s not related to the known DCS issue with the current release of Roon?

3

@AMP Do you think this is a dCS thing?

4

Sorry I didn’t mean a dCS issue, maybe the known regression in Roon.

5

Hi Chris,

No, this is a Tidal authorization issue. I’ve had it pop up occasionally for me as well. Restarting Roon (or RoonServer) typically corrects the issue. Out of curiosity are you running your core on linux / ROCK?

My understanding is that once logged in Tidal issues an authorization token to the user so that the actual credentials aren’t constantly being passed. Sometimes this token expires and there seems to be an issue with getting it renewed. I’ve seen this more often than not on linux-based cores and, frankly, assumed it had more to do with my account being hit by multiple Roon cores as well as multiple individual devices (the curse of the reviewer / retailer).

Perhaps it’s time to get @support involved to see if they can get to the bottom of why this is happening.

6

I’ve logged in and out of Tidal a few times, restarted my ROCK etc… No Luck.

7

Hey Chris,

We’re going to enable some diagnostics on your account, we’ll have a look at the logs and see if we can get a better sense of what’s going on here.

Can you also try deleting just the cache folder in ROCK’s /Data directory and the restarting ROCK? Let us know if that helps, ok?

8

Hi Mike - Just removed the contents of the cache folder and rebooted ROCK. No luck. Here’s the error that appears in the GUI.

14 PM
Screen Shot 2018-02-06 at 3.30.14 PM.jpg2248×1672 558 KB

9

Also @AMP Playback of local and Tidal content takes forever to start. Probably a side issue.

10

Thanks for the continued feedback @ComputerAudiophile! My assumption is that there are no issues when accessing/using TIDAL via their Web UI, but would like to confirm.

-Eric

11

Very reasonable question. No problems via web interface. Very speedy and plays without issue.

12

I just had a similar issue within the hour, but a full imac reboot cleared it. I was getting a message that I was playing Tidal via two different sources (in Tidal). Roon wouldn’t play any Tidal albums and skipped through the album loaded (track by track).

Working now.

13

Hey Chris,

We’re seeing what looks like networking problems. Anything changed recently with regards to your network or the network settings on ROCK?

I assume when you’re connected to ROCK, you can browse TIDAL without issue in Roon? It’s only playback that’s having issues?

14

Hi @mike , this is frustrating. The network is rock solid, but I’m sure everyone says that. On the other hand, I know from doing this long enough that most issues are related to one’s network.

Here is a video I just made of me browsing Roon, both local and Tidal and playing both types of tracks. Something definitely isn’t right, and I think it also looks like network issues based on the long delay between clicking play and actual playback. However, I just can’t pin down what it could be.

I’ve added quite a few Ubiquiti IP cameras and an NVR, but I don’t think my traffic is anywhere near saturating the network. If you guys have any suggestions, I’m all ears.

15

Hey Chris,

If you’re playing 16/44 to the dCS then there is a known issue with delayed playback start (10 seconds or so). This is in the process of being corrected and a new Roon build should be coming soon. That would explain what’s being seen in your video as far as playback is concerned.

@mike didn’t provide any detail on the network issues that they’re seeing so I’m not sure where to start there, but it’s worth going down the regular path…

What is the network topology?
What switches are in use?
Do you have cascaded switches (one plugged into another)?
Are you using any sort of media converters anywhere in the chain?
Do you have Sonos anywhere on your network?

IIRC, you’re using Cisco Catalyst switches (managed) and I typically advise against managed switches for audio use since additional configuration and ongoing management of the config is required for stability. That doesn’t mean that they can’t work, they just need some care and feeding.

In a managed switch environment I typically come across 3 primary issues:

Multicast / IGMP snooping configuration – typically impacts device discovery / devices randomly disappearing.

Flow control – Typically leads to stuttering playback and generally unreliable playback.

Spanning Tree – Definitely an issue when Sonos is involved. Leads to all kinds of network strangeness as the Sonos devices and the switches get into a fight over who’s in charge of the tree. This typically requires some advanced configuration to get it right.

16

Hi all,

Sorry to wade in here @support but I am seeing similar kinds of behaviour with Tidal tracks being skipped or just stopping during playback. I have had this for a few weeks now. Local content plays fine, and streaming Netflix video on my broadband connection is working solidly. At first I thought this was purely a Tidal problem, but it keeps happening and the Tidal apps seems to be less affected than Roon does.

So I also waded into the Roon log this evening and I am seeing what seem to be intermittent name resolution issues. Like this;

Error in web request https://push.roonlabs.com/push/1/connect: NetworkError (System.Net.WebException: The remote name could not be resolved: '**push.roonlabs.com**'

Error in web request https://accounts5.roonlabs.com/accounts/3/login: NetworkError (System.Net.WebException: The remote name could not be resolved: '**accounts5.roonlabs.com**'

Error in web request https://api.tidalhifi.com/v1/sessions/<snip>&: NetworkError (System.Net.WebException: The remote name could not be resolved: '**api.tidalhifi.com**'

Would these issues be specific to my connection or is there a wider problem that is causing these Tidal dropouts for larger groups of Roon users? There does seem to be quite a few Roon/Tidal support threads cropping up at the moment.

Thanks.

17

Hi Andrew - Ah yes, the topology. Remember when life was simple and everyone just had a router with WiFi?

I need to update my network topology map and post it rather than retype the whole thing.

I reset my Cisco SG-200 26 port switch to defaults and updated the firmware, but still have the issue. I’ve had good luck with managed switches set at their defaults in a number of installs. I like to have the management capability should I need it for some reason.

I have cascaded switches.
No media converters.
Sonos = yes.

IGMP snooping disabled
Flow Control disabled
Spanning tree enabled of course.

18

Are multiple sonos devices wired or do you just have one of them wired?

Have you changed the spanning tree settings from their defaults?

This could be an issue with the Sonos devices and switches getting into a spanning tree war. Typically this results in ports getting blocked which will interrupt traffic flow. Depending on the overall topology I can see where your core may briefly lose its connection to the internet which could result in a stream getting dropped.

Best practice with Sonos is to use Classic STP (rather than Rapid STP) as well as to set the root bridge priority as follows:

Core switch: 4096
Cascaded switch level 1: 8192
Cascaded switch level 2: 16384

If you’re cascading more than three levels then start the root at 2048 and double with each level.

Using classic STP will result in a longer recovery time if a loop is detected, but it’s generally more compatible. Sonos always operated under the assumption that none of their customers would use managed switches so their code made some unfortunate choices when setting up the mesh. This may have changed in a recent release as the devices seem better behaved now, but I haven’t looked into it.

Changing the Root bridge priority as outlined above should force your core switch to become the root of the tree and your cascaded switches to become the main branches. The Sonos devices can fight it out away from the main network.

19

Here’s an updated diagram. 1 Sonos and it’s wired.
With all switches reset to defaults, no spanning tree settings have been changed.

Updated with ROCK

CA February 2018 (1)
CA February 2018 (1).png801×891 37.2 KB

20

Yeah, with one Sonos device only then spanning tree shouldn’t be an issue. It’s when you have two or more wired that all hell breaks loose. There’s always the chance that one of the other devices on the network is creating a loop, but that device would have to be configured with a simultaneous wired and wireless connection AND it would have to be bridging traffic between the two interfaces.

Where is your Roon core connected?

My knee-jerk reaction in looking at the diagram is to try replacing the TP Link switch with something reliable and unmanaged (even if just for testing). I’ve had very good luck with the Cisco SG100/110 series products. I’ll be honest and say that my reason for that is that I’m not familiar enough with that TP-Link switch to know it’s idiosyncrasies, especially when cascaded to another switch.

As an aside I use the same Cisco SG200-26 at home (well two of them) and have similar settings to what you’ve reported, although I’ve had to do some massaging of the spanning tree setup to keep multiple wired Sonos devices from causing problems.