Dirac SDK raises hopes Dirac can be integrated in Roon!

I have read on the site of Computer Audiophile that Dirac will release Q1 2018 with a 2.0 version of Dirac Live. The link to the topic is: https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/37813-new-second-generation-dirac-live/

It reads:

And further:

It would be great if Dirac can now be integrated into Roon!

Enjoy the music,

Frans

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I’m looking forward too. Anyone from Roon dev team who could confirm Roon will look at the possibility to use Dirac output to performo room correction?

The “can” and “now” in this thread title seem premature, as opposed to “could” and “in the future.”

AJ

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Mods have changed the title of this thread to avoid users believing this is a current capability.

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A post was merged into an existing topic: TIDAL out of whack?

According to Flavio (a Dirac employee), they have released the SDK already.

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I know Rene @RBM has been looking for something to do since Roon endpoints have become simplified :wink: He is a Dirac user and may know more about the possibilities raised by the SDK.

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+1 to support Dirac Live. These days there are many more Ethernet Streamers, and these usually contain Roon Core, MQA decoders, and more prior to feeding the DAC.

With Dirac’s SDK this is more possible now than ever before.

It would be killer if Roon could apply the Dirac Live filters prior to sending the music over Ethernet. I need to bypass my streamer with a direct USB input from my PC to enjoy Dirac Live right now. I’d like to use the network streamer to be able to move my PC elsewhere.

I’m entering my 2nd year with Roon and loving the capability of this player and the frequent improvements. Hats off! I am one who enjoys the benefits of room EQ (Audyssey MultEQ, ARC (Anthem Room Correction) and Dirac Live. Of the three, Dirac Live would seem to be a perfect fit with Roon as they offer their SW as a plug-in supported by an SDK. Would Roon consider licensing this technology?

My best guess would be that of course Roon would be interested in supporting Dirac RC. I have no special knowledge of the new SDK, but I can see a few obstacles on the way:

  • All Dirac integrations I know of are hardware or VST-based – I do not know of any integrations with other software parties like Roon (but then again, I never looked – so please correct me if I have missed anything).
  • Roon’s infrastructure is Core-based – all DSP / filter processing will need to take place at Core level as opposed to at endpoint level. Not sure if the SDK provides for this.
  • Even if it does or if this can be overcome, licensing could be an issue: Dirac likes to license per device/installation, while with Roon one could easily load multiple flters for multiple endpoints.

We’ll see what the future holds. I’m positive, but yet I think my MiniDSP won’t go anywhere soon.

Which is fine with me. :slight_smile:

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There’s another, albeit likely much smaller issue, which is that Roon’s reference platform (ROCK) is Linux-based. Dirac, that I know of, doesn’t currently have publicly available Linux binaries. My understanding is that they exist for ARM platforms, but who knows how much (or little) work it’d take on their end to make that work, or work well, on Linux x86. Going forward, the licensing question is obviously the bigger one, moreso with Roon possibly getting remote streaming capability at some point in the future. I’ll take Dirac’s announcement of “modules” (and the “car” module being one of the first examples Flavio gave) as a sign it’s something Dirac has thought about.

This said, anything that isn’t $800 a seat, which is essentially what Dirac costs right now if you factor in the dedicated hardware to run it (be it from MiniDSP or rolling an endpoint with a commercial OS (and all the compromises that entails)) would be progress. Something else I can’t help but wondering about when it comes to room correction in general is who gets to deal with customer support. Dirac have done a truly remarkable job at simplifying the process, but it still isn’t completely idiot-proof, and that’s something that possibly has a not-inconsequential cost.

Generally, my personal feeling is that it’d be more constructive for us, as users, to lobby for “any reasonably user-friendly, known good, advanced room correction” rather than “Brand X” room correction, and trust RoonLabs to find the best compromise for everyone. I, for one, don’t care if room correction is done by Dirac (though I’m impatient to hear how good the new algos sound), Trinnov, or something else (maybe there’s a way for Roon to licence HAF’s algos and make whatever manual tuning is going on there user-facing, for example), just as long as it’s good, and isn’t as involved and obtuse as REW/RePhase (no matter how great @Magnus’s and @SwissBear’s tutorials are :wink: ).

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Hmm. Roon includes room correction, both PEQ and convolution style. Works great. But it doesn’t do measurement and filter design, need third party tools.

The advantage of the complete Dirac solution is that it does it all, end-to-end (with some attendant disadvantages).

How does the SDK provide an end-to-end solution? If included, the integration would be demanding (UI — remote UI in the Roon architecture). If not, if the SDK is runtime only, do the Dirac tools support the SDK, and how are they licensed?

Bumping this topic to see if there has been any movement on whether this is a viable solution. Having Dirac Live filters applied prior to RAAT would be ideal.

Is this on Roon or Dirac to spearhead? I.e. who would benefit most (outside of us).

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Even if Dirac has not been integrated, Roon can be used with Dirac AU plugins, I’ve configured Roon to use them in their current beta DL 1.x version and used them with success.
(the upcoming Dirac Live 2.0 will feature AU and VST plugins as well)

As you can see in the image linked here: http://diracdocs.com/Roon&Dirac.png
one can use Audio Hijack so that the music stream from Roon is routed to the Dirac plugin first and from that to the DAC, or any output device.
(by the way Audio Hijack can be used for a number of other purposes)

One has to drag the Application icon from the menu on the right and then click it in order to select Roon so that audio from Roon will be captured
Then the Audio Units icon has to be dragged after the first icon and they will be automatically connected, the icon has to be clicked and Dirac plugin selected.
Last the output Device icon, again it will be automatically connected defining the path and the output device of choice has to be selected

Audio Hijack demo is available here: https://rogueamoeba.com/audiohijack/

:slight_smile: Flavio

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Flavio, it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain and either a mac or a windows box connected directly to a dac that integrating Roon and Dirac is relatively trivial, but that’s a bit beside @Frans’ point, or the question being asked, here : if I’m not mistaken, the sole option for a separated server / client model is running a client with a full windows or OSX install, with all the compromises that entails, and installing Dirac on top of that. That I know of, the AU/VST option you’re proposing doesn’t allow simultaneous multiroom, doesn’t allow anything else than full-featured clients, in essence, neither takes advantage of the comparatively important processing ability built into a Roon core, nor of the advantages of running power-efficient and/or relatively cheap endpoints.

Hi Xekomi,

I’ve minimal hands on experience with Roon, actually I’ve just experimented with the configuration I wrote about.
Does the simultaneous multiroom set-up that you’re referring to allow an individual different mixed-phase correction for each of the rooms?
If not (from my admittedly biased point of view) one has to choose between a significant compromise in digital room correction with the advantage of multiroom and a state of the art digital room correction in the main listening room only.
That might be the right choice for some but others that want to enjoy both Roon and Dirac Live might think differently.

Flavio

Flavio, please don’t start playing marketing FUD. It’s beneath you. The answer to that is “of course they don’t, because Dirac are the only ones who do it”, but that’s beside both my point, and @Frans’, and you know that.

We know your filters are good, and that’s why people’ve been paying €650 for software you don’t bother keeping up to date (High Sierra anyone ? It’s only been a year since the issue popped up, after all…) and been asking you to work on getting Dirac to run as some sort of a plugin for Roon.
The reason to this is running Dirac as a Roon plugin, i.e, piping Dirac’s output into Roon’s transport would allow anything Dirac computes to be sent to any Roon client (or “endpoint”). This is what @Frans was asking about, and that is why people are asking for integration. Right now, as long as you have the processing power on the core, anything that can be done with .wav convolution can be done by Roon, and the same would likely apply to Dirac. Now I completely understand you’d rather sell a bunch of $800 MiniDSP dongles, but don’t you think it’d be smarter to do it on a server ?

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I don’t play marketing FUD and I’d love to see Dirac integrated into Roon,
that’s not in our hands though as it’s a RoonLabs decision, my post is about a possibility of Roon to use standard plugins (including Dirac Live)

Flavio

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Sorry for coming out at you that hard. It really sounded like you were trying to deflect.

If it wasn’t obvious, so do many people here, but from here, and despite your post, it looks like it’s out of RoonLabs’ hands.

My read was that it was more about a host OS’s ability to use audio plugins (in the case of the screenshot you posted, Apple’s OSX). The reason that my read was what it was is that if it had been about Roon, it’d also work on RoonLabs’ reference implementation, which is ROCK / Nucleus. So, how does one get Dirac correction on those ?

Thanks for retracting about FUD, appreciated.
I know nothing about ROCK/Nucleus… sorry.
Neeedless to say licensing Dirac has a cost and RoonLabs can quite legitimately decide to propose other solutions.