KEF LS50 wireless, firmware 2.6, January 2023, not seen by Nucleus

Hi guys. I may have found the culprit. (And FYI I have unplugged the Airport Extreme bridge & removed all its various wires, thereby shifting my desktop to wireless. I can deal with that for now. And I’m using only a laptop, just in case something screwy got installed in my desktop OS. I figure the fewer variables the better.) But first to answer bearFNF’s most recent question, the Eero has no ethernet ports at all. And all of my wireless devices show up on exactly the same IP except for the digits after the final period, so I doubt that I have competing wireless networks. The Nucleus is on 192.168.1.x and the KEFs & every other wireless device in the house are on 192.168.4.x When I unplugged my desktop ethernet cable, changing its connections to wireless, its ISP changed from 192.168.1.x to 192.168.4.x

I am attaching two photos here. One shows that my IPS router (from an ultrahigh-speed fiber network) is wired into cat-5 house wiring which provides ethernet ports in every major room. Rummaging around down there this morning, I opened some cabinet which revealed what I think is a second router. One photo below shows the physical relationship between these two gadgets, which are are connected by three orange wires. The second photo is a close-up of the ID label on the house-wiring gadget. I do not know what this gadget is, nor do I understand how I might figure out what it is. But it looks router-ish to me. And so that you have a full set of relevant documents at hand, here’s a picture of my ISP router label too, showing that its “native” ISP is 192.168.1.1. My Eero homebase thingy is plugged into my ISP router. There is an open port on the router-to-house-wiring router-ish looking thing (the one with maybe a dozen or so orange wires running into it). It would be possible to move the Eero cable to one of those open ports, and if my logic holds here that might change the IP address to be 192.168.1.x But that is 100% wild guessing on my part. Utterly wild guessing. Authenic pure-Irish blarney. And I am very reluctant to try any wild flings for fear of losing our house wireless network altogether & permanently because I have somehow damaged the Eero homebase widget that plugs into the ISP router. I do not know what is a wild fling and what is safe-and-sensible. I have not a clue. Here are the pictures:

Alas, the company that did this house wiring for us no longer exists. But our builder has a relationship with some outfit that now handles this wiring for them, and possibly I can get that company to come in to fix this “two subnets” problem for me.

My question to all of you–a really crucial question: in the simplest terms possible, what do I tell that company is the problem I am trying to solve? In my experience with your high-tech world, I have discovered that I look like a “good customer” when I can say “here is my problem” rather than telling some long obscure narrative tale-of-woe about some end device on my system that isn’t working as it should. So is “fix the 2 submet problem” the way to name this?

As all of you know perhaps far better than I do, companies often send out some “cable guy” cute kid who does not actually trouble-shoot very much. He is given a do-this workorder. Sometimes I luck out & get a really smart person who is clearly 'way under-employed for his native intelligence & skillset, and so we have a wonderful conversation like these conversations. But the fact remains that I am a cultural & literary historian in her 70s and I know my place in the world. I understand how to communicate to all of you just as I know how to read Middle English: be careful, be precise, sound things out phonetically, track every metaphor back to the Latin or French or Norse stem and then just concentrate: “sub; net; see, route, find.” Got it. So please, if you can, and if I have found the problem by fearlessly (& carefully) opening cabinets I was told never to touch, tell me what problem I should describe to the people who run cat-5 through walls in new houses. I don’t even know what those companies are called, for heaven sake! It’s hard to google-search for services you don’t know how to name…

Wes from Roon corporate I think is on this thread. I am very very sorry if I am creating headaches for all of you because of how my house was built not because there’s anything defective about all this expensive and intimidating new equipment. You are sweet to help me and care as you do. I wanted the house wired properly (what I thought was properly) precisely to get away from the world of bridges and switches and adlib adhoc gadgets of unknown build quality & DIY youtubery. Been there, did that, when I lived in a highrise that had rebar running through the walls. Not again. But here I am, hearing all this advice to “bridge” this and “switch” that and buy this other $500 thingy to connect to the KEFs.

I cannot bear the thought that when I am forced into senior housing I will lose not only all my books but also access to any decent music at all. Bottom line: I want a very simple very robust music system to play FLAC quality classical music because heaven only knows what senior housing may provide by way of IT. I’m two or three years out from that move, I hope, but I am actively preparing for it. From what I have seen so far, even “independent living” senior places are really NOT ready for cognitively sharp residents who expect to remain connected to the world. Nucleus + KEF wireless + Eero promises to provide simple robust system to provide the music that will help keep me sane—and furthermore safe from computer OS updates that ruin everything regularly. Been-there-done-that too. And so, I do still hope to make this work. Thanks again. I’m sorry my posts are so long, but I do not have the expertise requisite to speak more concisely. Cate

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Edited content

Wes & Axel_Lesch–Yes, all this competing advice is confusing, although I appreciate the good will it demonstrates. Thank you for seeing that this is hard for me. As for Wes’s proposal: The only wifi I have in this house is 192.168.4.x I am willing to type an IP into a browser and do what I’m told: I have done that before. I know to be very very careful. But first I need to print out all those instructions & helpful screen shots, and offhand I can’t find a quick-and- clean way to print Wes’s post rather than the whole long thread. In the meantime, however, please take a look at the post I put up moments ago: I think I may have found the reason why there are two “subnets” in this house. Thank you. Cate

Thats just fine!
Leave it as it is.

From your picture, quite helpful, I can tell:

To log into the ZyXEL provided network:
Zyxel10843

Your Password is:
C733TMLR7M

To login to your ZyXEL router:

Username:
admin

Password:

44TvvpQdUH

Please make sure to use upper and lower case.

This is exactly what happened to my parents when they instituted an eero mesh system and couldn’t get their Sonos to play. It’s a double subnet for sure. How to fix this has been covered above, but I will say, for your piece of mind, the Kef’s are not at fault. When I brought mine home, I was thinking an hours long IT tussle, but five minutes or less was up and running and not a hiccup since. The II’s are a very different beast from the woes we all read about with the first version. Might be good to get somebody in who’s knowledgeable about network topography. I tried with my parents, but it was finally a neighbor with more skills than I who got it working (and probably with a lot less grumbling). Hope you get it sorted soon.

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Axel, I can’t get in to that network. As I have said, I see no evidence anywhere that I have two different wireless networks in this house. The Zyexl router may already be in some subordinated relationship to the Ting ONT that (as I “understand” it) actually connects me to the fiber cables running down the street. I only just noticed that thing. It has one cable running out through the basement wall to the fiber optic network running down the stree, one cable going up into the BigGreyBox holding the house wiring, and one thin wire leading up into the wall of the house between studs and behind the Tyvek wrap.

I installed the Eero myself following the instructions in the box, and I may have plugged it into the router that my fiber cable outfit provided rather than into whatever switch or router or whatever holds all the orange wires I described in prior posts.

I am going to call the fiber-cable company & see if they can walk me through this. I have just discovered that without my old Airport Extreme in bridge mode I cannot get my printer to connect to my desktop even thought both are on the same wireless network. I’m a writer. I teach on Monday. I have to have a printer.

Cate

I’m not fully following this. Is the topology here:

Fiber Optic Modem ->
     - Zyxel: WAN<->LAN Router/NAT, SSID (??), DHCP Server(192.168.1.x) ->
          - some set of wireless clients
          - some set of wired clients
          - Eero primary: NAT, SSID (??), DHCP Server (192.168.4.x) ->
                    - some set of wireless clients

If that’s the case, then why is nobody recommending running Eero in bridge mode?

That would be a simple fix, no?

Not sure if it makes sense to let an isp router do all the routing work and use a device like Eero as a wifi access point only.

That Zyxel device is decent. It has a 1GHz Dual Core proc and 4 gigabit ports. Far easier for @Catherine_Wallace to flip a simple switch in the Eero UX (router → bridge) than to try get the Zyxel into bridge mode (which implies that the Eero is picking up the IP from her ISP - that may work but some ISPs, as I’m sure you know, play games with that stuff).

I think this might be easily fixed by that one config change on the Eero. You might think she’s leaving some switching capability on the table but the Zyxel will be in the WAN path regardless and that seems like a more durable network element than the Eero in her case.

Actually, another alternative would be to just get rid of the Zyxel altogether rather than put it into bridge mode. She’s probably double NATed as it is on the WiFi. I wonder what would happen if she just connected the Eero directly to the fiber modem - if this were me, that’s what I would have done in the first place and I assume you folks, too.

@gTunes
I just wanted to follow Wes’ advice to avoid making a complete mess as I feel like Cate has lost track of all of this.

I agree she’s in a tough spot - I’m not trying to boot you out of the conversation or something like that. That’s not my place.

I’m just worried that the we’re missing an opportunity to stabilize her network by doing a simple thing versus trying to optimize her network in a manner that a more expert user might.

The reason I’m bringing up the idea of putting the Eero into bridge mode is that, if I recall correctly, it’s a pretty simple configuration change. It would eliminate the second router/NAT/DHCP server and it wouldn’t make her network performance any worse that it was before she bought the new speakers.

I haven’t been completely following this thread - it’s complex and there was a lot said. So I don’t actually feel confident that I understand her topology as well as you do. So I hope you don’t drop out of this conversation.

Is the primary Eero connected topologically such that all wired and wireless traffic is already going through it? I don’t think so because some devices seem to be picking up IP addresses from it. So if she just puts it into bridge mode (which is what I think you’re recommending), then she won’t actually have a router between the LAN devices that are going through it and the WAN.

So she would need to re-cable stuff. Or am I missing something?

If she re-cables so that everything goes through the Eero, then she wouldn’t need to put the Zyxel in bridge mode, she could drop it altogether. Does that make sense?

That seems like one option. So does running Eero in bridge mode. But just putting the Zyxel into bridge doesn’t seem like the right thing. What do you think?

I think, especially in a case like this, we should discuss such issues via private message.
If you read a little further towards the beginning you will better understand why.

All good, :slight_smile: @gTunes
I have to go to bed now, get up early tomorrow.

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I have a rule at work: if something isn’t solved in three emails, it’s time to pick up the phone.

It would go quicker and easier if one of you and @Catherine_Wallace had a voice or video chat and share the screen of her desktop. Then you can try different things live.

Cate,
I sincerely hope that your Internet Service Provider can help you to fix these network issues. They may also be able to give you the name of someone in your area that you can contact to get things done as quickly as possible. I live in Germany and I’m not familiar with your local conditions. A quick search in English came up with:
https://www.thumbtack.com/k/network-wiring/near-me
I have no idea what this information is worth. In any case, you need a network service technician for private home network installation.

Tell them you want only one single network in your house. All of the devices in your house should be on the same network. This is essential, otherwise certain applications will not work for you.

I totally understand you. And wish you luck. And I’m sorry that, until now at least, no workable solution has been found for you.

You have two subnets and Roon does not see your KEFs because they are in a different subnet to your Nucleus.

I’ve bolded @Axel_Lesch 's reply, because this hits the nail on the head.

For info, here’s Roon’s article on subnets…

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Hi, folks.

In case @Catherine_Wallace doesn’t make her way back here…

I’ve been directly chatting with Cate for a few days. We hopped on the phone today and got her network sorted out. The most straightforward path was to put the Eero into bridge mode. Her network is more complicated than this thread suggested - she has a 16-port switch plugged into the Zyxel. It wasn’t going to work to put the Zyxel into bridge mode without also topologically moving the Eero to the other side of it. Putting the Eero into bridge mode was an instant fix and kept her network running exactly as it had been. Once we did that, the KEFs showed up and she was able to see and add them as a Roon zone.

This forum is such a great resource. Lots of great input for Cate and I’m glad I was able to help. Thanks, everyone.

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You are an angel @gTunes
I’ve been following this thread with some interest hoping to learn something while also enjoying @Catherine_Wallace ‘s writing style.
I’m pleased to see this resolved.

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You are so awesome, @gTunes. Thank you for helping our friend, Cate enjoy the music!

:notes: :violin: :trumpet:

Wes

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