Tracks with NO composition

Support
42

i was loiking for one example, and returning to one of the “fails” i have found out… that it worked.
maybe the problem is that i first changed the setting to “prefer file” in the multi-part section and AFTER i have populated the WORK tag (and rescan).
but it seems that the setting change takes affect only if there is a WORK tag… otherwise it reverts to “prefer Roon” (roon is the only program i know when you cannot see the apply setting, you can change the settings, but not see them!!!).

so i’ll look more deeply in other files and see if i can make this cabalistic recipe work.

i have found in the past another situation where the multi-part setting is affecting the composition credits… so i really guess that this is the final solution:

so, @Tony_Casey, i really thank you for your help.

i repeat myself here: i’d like to have a comment from someone of the @support team

43

Yes, you must set all the library switches and you must also set the WORK tag. I have two roons and I can see that one will work and the other will not with an identical album if i haven’t set all the library switches and the WORK tag. There are a lot of dependencies there and it is easy to forget one.

44

so… just changed global multi-part setting to “prefer file” … and for classical music to “prefer roon”.

but i don’t have WORK tag for non classical-music. I’ll have to make some tagging…

45

I use MusicBrainz Picard to auto-populate composer with non-classical music where I have a lot of gaps. I was surprised to see that it auto-populates work at the same time.

The only thing is that with non-classical on MusicBrainz the composer is as likely to end up in the writer tag as the composer tag. Couldn’t really see a pattern. From a display perspective that doesn’t seem to matter as roon treats composer, writer, arranger, orchestrator etc. the same. But I am not so sure that is the case from a process logic perspective.

46

That’s probably because the information for a lot of works isn’t detailed enough. Writer at musicbrainz is more general than composer or lyricist, see https://musicbrainz.org/relationship/a255bca1-b157-4518-9108-7b147dc3fc68

47

Hey everyone,

First, I wanted to say that we appreciate your feedback here. The team has reviewed this discussion and discussed ourselves.

We’d like to take a closer look at some of the examples that you’ve found that you’re experiencing issues with so we can more closely identify what you’re experiencing.

I was hoping you’d be able to share an album with us, and also send details (including screenshots) on what you’re experiencing with this album. Ideally, you can zip up the entire folder and send me private message containing a shared dropbox link. If you don’t have Dropbox or need another way to send the media, just let me know.

48

An example with which I’ve tried to reproduce what Brian described here

The album (let me know if you need a “debug copy” or if it’s available to you):

Track 8 has no composer credits (allmusic doesn’t know about it).

001
001.jpg2790×1450 199 KB

Now adding the composer manually …

002
002.jpg1751×1675 156 KB

… get’s me this:

003
003.jpg2771×1651 248 KB

If I un-ID the album, I see this:

004%20-%20unID'd
004 - unID'd.jpg2778×1426 186 KB

Note: since I’ve played with metadata afterwards I’m not sure if I still have a version in the state the album was when doing the test. Maybe I’ve some backup.

Update: interestingly, when I look at the album properties, I see this:

41
Screenshot 2018-11-02 at 20.57.41.png1468×476 26.2 KB

I’ve applied Tony’s work/part trick … and with this I can switch it on and off.

49

Hi @dylan
if i can summarize the overall discussion, there are 2 scenarios:

scenario 1: import settings with “prefer roon” for multi-part. then even if you tag files with a composer (and/or a composition=WORK) tag the tracks remain “orphan” with no composition associated. composers are shown under the tracks (if settings ask to), but no more than that: added composers do not exist in the library and the links are not active. this happens not every time, but is quite likely if allmusic has only some tracks without composition.

scenario 2: import settings with “prefer file” for multi-part. then if (and only if) you add both a COMPOSER tag and a WORK tag… the tracks are associated to a composition (=WORK) and the composer becomes real in the library and the link near the tracks is active.

this second behavior is, in my (i think our) opinion, what should be considered as “normal”, whatever settings one chooses. the existence of a composition associated to EVERY track is, for some of us, something which is the real “magic” of roon: something that allows to explore our own library looking for interconnections between albums and artists.

at this point, we can say that the problem is “solved”, as the workaround in scenario 2 seems to work. at the moment, i’m going through a massive tagging task to add the WORK tag to all my files (except classical music, that already has it).
clearly, it’s a workaround: as pointed out by @Tony_Casey, changes in roon code could spoil it, so it’s important for me (us) it does not happen.

besides, it’s not a real solution: in the beginning of my roon experience, i had “prefer file” in the multi-part settings. but that created some peculiar errors in some of my classical music library: parts of composition seen as single compositions or (even worse!) as separate discs of a multidisc set. that’s why i reverted to “prefer roon”

now, the intersection between “classical” and “album with problems if file-preferred” and “album with problems if roon-preferred” could be… null or… just a few.

anyway… hope this helps.

1 Like
50

Unfortunately not, as the fix cannot be applied to Tidal albums; there is no way to add a WORK tag.

@dylan I have referenced an example above, but here it is explicitly…

As I mentioned near the start of this thread, the problem has been known about for some 18 months. I had assumed that Roon were already working on a fix.

Brian

51

Hi @dylan

I think @Niccolo_Terzi has summarized very well what we think should be default composition behavior. I myself have noticed a groundswell emerge over the last 18 months or so that started with the handful with large classical libraries. Now those with smaller classical and non-classical libraries are also realizing the benefits. I think the reason is that roon is quite a paradigm shift and it takes a while to “get” the possibilities. By trial and error we have come up with a workaround but it would benefit all to find a way of productizing this behavior in some way.

I have to be somewhere today but I will commit to getting you some representative media by PM, probably tomorrow (Sunday) afternoon.

52

yes, you are right. i’m not a tidal user. but i remember you are, and already said this :slight_smile: