Where are Roon 1.1 Metadata Preference Controls?

I have just come on board now that 1.1 has been released. However I find no information or easy access to control what metadata is being used by Roon. First of all, I selected No to Show Roon Genres but the genres displayed are Roon not mine. Secondly, the release blurb says that I can prioritise my data choice in the sophisticated three-layer structure managed by Roon very simply - By selecting “Prefer File”. I have not seen this selection choice anywhere. So I am left with what Roon says are my Genres which include Acid Folk and Baroque Pop among many others introduced by Roon.
My question is: Is this it? Is this the metadata flexibility provided by Roon 1.1? If so, it is gone, gone, gone.

When you select No to Show Roon Genres, it will not show the Genres that Roon picked for the Artist, Album and Track level. Also, if you have Show Genres from File Tags (just below Show Roon Genres) set to No, then you should see no Genres at all when you look at an Artist or Album. So, in this scenario, you have a clean slate to add Genres yourself.

Is the above what you want to do or do you have Genres in your album file tags that you want to display?

Cheers, Greg

Thank you Greg.
I HAVE selected No to Roon Genres and Yes to File Genres.
When I Browse by Genre, I see genres that are NOT in my files. Example, Sam Cooke and others show in R&B. I go to one of the files and inspect it in Track Info and I see both GENRE and a genre tags are set to Male Vocal, which IS my tag. There is a Style tag populated with Uptown Soul and I do not know where that comes from. Nowhere in the Track Info does it show a tag with a value of R&B.
So, tell me again how R&B gets to be the Genre in Roon,
Also, please answer my second question, which is where do I find the “Prefer File” flag that Danny refers to in his write up of Roon 1.1?
I only installed Roon 1.1 because it was supposed to have a solution to this problems so this is critical for me.
Thank you for your assistance. Peter

Hi Peter, I think the way you have it set up, the R&B must be tagged on the Sam Cooke album files.

Anyway, if you select this album, look for the pencil on the right side of the screen in the album area. Click it and there you can select Edit Fields. I little way down you’ll see Genres. It will show you Roon’s Genres for that album, even though they won’t show for the album, because you set Show Roon Genre to No.

It will also show the Genres that Roon brought in from your file tags. Those should show on the album page, because you set it to.

Just below that is where you can add your own Genres as well. It will show the entire Genre hierarchy that’s available. I don’t believe you can edit that. You can start typing it the field and it will narrow it down for you.

You can do all this on the Artist, Album and Track level.

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Greg

also, your genres that are named the same as Roon genres will be mapped to each other, but the rest will be dropped into an Uncategorized genre, so you can properly set up the hierarchy.

there is a genre mapping helper too in settings -> setup -> genremappings if you want to map more of your genres to Roon genres (to get descriptions and whatever)

Danny, I know that you are all surprised by the importance of Genre. To me it is essential as the primary way that I browse my library and that is why I deleted Roon 1 until you said this was sorted.

No, R&B does not exist anywhere in my library as a Genre tag, It does exist, on some tracks, as a Style tag. Where have I set Style tag to be treated as a Genre tag by Roon? I have now deleted all the Style tags from my library. I still find Genres that are not mine - some other field perhaps, should I go on an Easter egg hunt through my library?

Why are Genres that do not matching Roon’s treated as Uncategorized? Why do I need a hierarchy if I do not want one?

I want to simply find my library organised by Genre, my Genres and only my Genres. That should be simple: a known tag in every file, labelled Genre.

If you cannot deliver to me my music with my Genre as it exists in my library, then I do not need Roon, and all the great supplementary information I was looking forward to explore.

Thank you for your assitance.
Peter

OK.
I rebuilt the Roon database and the Style genres have gone. I can live with Uncategorised Genres. I looked at the mapping and will look again when I understand why it is an advantage to use your mappings rather than mine.
We live and learn and this is where we are now.
Thank you.
Peter

We are no longer surprised by the importance of Genre. After researching this and getting a ton of feedback, we released that this is one of the most important user “owned” fields that exists, as most tools allow it to be edited. Your initial email to us is what triggered this investigation. This is also why we treat Genres very specially in our data model, and allow for you to turn on and off all Roon and all file tag Genres independently.

Your genres are not a hierarchy because your file tags have no standard way to convey hierarchy, so instead of making up a category for them, we chose to put them into Uncategorized and let you edit them into whatever hierarchy you want. Some users like the Roon genres because they come with an acceptable (to some) hierarchy and many come with descriptions, and just want their file genres to map directly on to Roon genres, usually due to spelling and punctuation.

The world of file tags is pretty diverse and despite many “standards”, it is not very standardized. We import some of the file tags that we recognize. The list was noted in the v1.1 release notes: Roon 1.1 Is Live!

Thank you, Danny.
You are right - I had not read your release notes as equating Genre and Style, I thought you were now parsing them better.
I am happy to have my simple structure back (Uncategorised is not a show-stopper) and I will now explore Roon in practice. I expect that lead me to creating hierarchies or changing my structures as I fall in with the Roon-way. I look forward to it.
Thank you for Roon.
Peter

Peter, It was unclear to me whether or not you had edited the genre display hierarchy yet. This is separate from mapping. Editing the hierarchy allows you to leave Uncategorized behind pretty much for good, at least for navigation and playback purpose. After being schooled here as well, I’m in the process of getting mine, and only my genres displayed immediately when “genres” is selected. Uncategorized is effectively off the radar other than for back-end purposes.

But I too am not yet sold on this implementation scheme, desiring something a bit more straightforward as you outlined. Maybe in time that will change?

BeBop, How did you use hierarchy to get around the problem of uncategorised Genres? I tried mapping one of my Genres to a Roon proxy, with bad results so I have gone back to having most of my library in Uncategorised. I do not view this as a problem just slightly inconvenient and unattractive in an otherwise very convenient and attractive application.
As for the general issue of the implementation scheme, I expect that the whole tag management control issue is likely to be an early-adopter issue. There are many early adopters who have built substantial libraries and worked like gardeners for years to place and grow what we wanted. We will all pile onto the new solution then criticise it like crazy for not supporting this or that feature or widget. Later arrivals will just say “cool” and go with the program because it can integrate their un-groomed libraries with their streamed consumption. By then RoonSpeakers will be real, UPNP/DNLA will go to its deserved death and no one will look back, until the next awesome comes along. So, all this drama is just a short-term blip in what Roon hopes to build as a sustainable solution for music access over the years. I think they stand a very good chance of doing just that.

Hey Peter, take a look at my post here:

if you have a genre in your tags called Post Bop, and you want it to appear under Jazz, you should find it in under Uncategorized and set the parent genre to Jazz.

Alternatively, if you want albums with the file tag Post Bop to be grouped in with the existing Roon genre Post-Bop (since our metadata uses a dash), you can set that up under Settings > Setup > Genre Mappings.

Once the mapping is set, any albums that have the file tag Post Bop will be grouped in with Post-Bop, even if the album is unidentified. This allows you to map your own genres to the hierarchy Roon uses out of the box.

Does that make sense? It’s extremely flexible, but it requires a little thought about how exactly you want to use genres in Roon.

Thank you, Mike.
So the Hierarchy solutions to remove Genres from the Uncategorised category both depend on using Roon Genres. Either you identify a Roon Genre to be the parent on the Uncategorised Genre or you map the the Roon Genre to the Uncategorised Genre. Did I understand that correctly?
I did try mapping my Genre to a Roon sub-Genre, but found that there were side effects. I will be more diligent and try some different approaches with time for the library to sync.
Peter

Think about it this way – once Roon is displaying your genre tags, they’re all going to show up in the genre tree somewhere, and you can organize them as you see fit.

The only reason to use the mapping feature is for genres you don’t want to show up in Roon – either you want them hidden completely, or you want them mapped to a genre that already exists (meaning, everything with the file tag Memphis gets displayed as part of Memphis Soul, or also the aforementioned Post-Bop example).

The genre browser is probably where you want to focus your energy in most cases – think of the mapping piece of this as more a gatekeeper, helping you configure which tags genres are actually imported into Roon.

OK, Mike.
The bottom line is to used the direct maps and then the majority in Uncategorised.
That comes with the implication that Roon does not use Genre is a meaningful way to its own information web - something that would be inhibited by an Uncategorised Genre versus a Roon Genre.
In either event I am good for now. Thank you. Peter

Roon does not treat it’s own genres as special in any way. The only reason we allow for mappings is for those who want to use both Roon and FileTag genres, or for those that want the Roon extra data (like descriptions) for their FileTag genres.

You will not lose functionality by using FileTag genres, whether you keep them uncategorized or if you reorganize them into your own hierarchy.

Thank you, Danny.
I remain unclear about the distinction between categorised Genres (show in the Genre browser) and uncategorised Genres (show in the Uncategorised Genre of the Genre browser).
If all Genres are equally special, then why do Roon Genres display in the first view of the Genre browser but unmapped tag Genres are put into Uncategorised? That distinction seems based on the origin of the Genre: Roon and non-Roon.
Where does one create a “hierarchy”? Does it mean I could take “A” and put it into a hierarchy with Genre “AA” and now AA will show in the Genre browser alongside Roon Genres?
As I said, this two-tier Genre structure does not bother me greatly. My use of the application is limited by the lack of DNLA support and the wait for Roonspeakers support from someone credible. When that becomes clear then I can look at the cost and benefit of re-doing my playback devices and upgrading to a new iPad, which I do not need for myself. Peter

We made this decision to placing FileTagGenres into an Uncategorized group for users who wanted to mix their Roon genres and non-Roon genres. We figured they wouldn’t want to pollute their genres hierarchy with a large number of top-level genres.

Placing them in Uncategorized allows the user to see what came in from FileTags, and then they can alter the hierarchy as they wish.

Let’s say you have the following non-Roon matching FileTag Genres: “Metal”, “DarkMetal”, “LightMetal”, “MediumMetal”.

You might want to put Metal under the Roon Rock/Pop->HardRock, or you might want to merge it into Rock/Pop->Heavy Metal, or you might just want a toplevel Metal.

then you might want the remaining 3 variations of Metal to be under the above placed Metal.

You can edit the hiearchy by visiting the genre, sidebar -> genres -> click on genre (at toplevel or by drilling down), then clicking on the pencil and editing the ‘Parent’.

So, the options above can be done by these actions:

First case:

Rock/Pop -> Hard Rock -> Metal -> DarkMetal,LightMetal,MediumMetal

- Turn on Roon and FileTag genres in Settings
- Edit Metal to have parent of Hard Rock
- Edit the other 3 to have parent of Metal

Second case:

Rock/Pop -> Heavy Metal -> DarkMetal,LightMetal,MediumMetal

- Turn on Roon and FileTag genres in Settings
- Map Metal to Heavy Metal in Settings -> Setup -> Genre Mapping
- Edit the other 3 to have parent of Heavy Metal

Third case:

Metal -> DarkMetal,LightMetal,MediumMetal

- Edit the parent of Metal to have no parent (become top-level)
- Edit the other 3 to have parent of Metal

Roon Genres have a very diverse and deep hierarchy (in some cases it is 4 or 5 deep), but if you prefer your own, we’ve exposed a data model that lets you mix and match or just clobber and recreate whatever experience you’d like.

Hello danny,

This post alone is worth it’s weight in words. Thank you for a very practical, lucid steps for how-to.

Best,
Richard

Hi Danny,

Thanks for the details, it really helps to understand how genres work within Roon.

However, it would be great if the hierarchy/parent approach could be independant from file tags.

Using your example, let’s say I have the following non-Roon matching FileTag Genres: “DarkMetal”, “LightMetal”, “MediumMetal”.
(I deliberately omitted “Metal”).

In this case, I would like to choose the following hierarchy:
Metal -> DarkMetal,LightMetal,MediumMetal

Assuming “Metal” is neither a Roon genre or a genre retrieved from file tags, it is not possible to create it and use it as a top-level genre. So, “DarkMetal”, “LightMetal”, “MediumMetal” will likely stay in the Uncategorized group.

I guess I would have to import some files which are tagged with [Genre] = “Metal” in order to create my hierarchy ?
(IMHO, “Metal” is usually to generic to be applied to any songs or albums and I view the term as a generic category/umbrella only. I prefer to use more specific genres such as heavy metal, doom metal, bla bla…).

jp