Shuffling tags doesn't play non-library Tidal tracks from playlists in the tag [Resolved in Build 831]

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

Core Machine (Operating system/System info/Roon build number)

Mac mini MD388, macOS Catalina, Roon 1.8 (build 763)

Network Details (Including networking gear model/manufacturer and if on WiFi/Ethernet)

Ethernet 1 Gb/s, internet connection 300 Mb/s

Description Of Issue

Shuffling tags doesn’t play non-library Tidal tracks from playlists in the tag. For example, I added two playlists with Tidal and local tracks to the tag “test”, tried to shuffle it and got only two tracks in the queue. Watch video below.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

This used to work, even in the first 1.8 builds. I could save local copies of multiple Tidal playlists, add them to one tag and shuffle all at once. Now even this is broken. Any answers from @support?

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

Also Cmd+A doesn’t work, I have to select with Shift or Cmd by one. And if I select several playlists they shuffle, if I just click shuffle it freezes forever. For example:

[dylan (Dylan Caudill)]

Thanks for the detailed report, @Alexander_Bashlaev — We’ve passed this along to our QA team to investigate further.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

And while I can select multiple playlists I can’t do so in complex tags that consist of albums, genres, and playlists. So now I can’t shuffle them at all.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

Thanks Dylan!

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

This bug still exists in the build 778.

[Bruce_Orr1 (Bruce Orr)]

Yes, agree with this issue. Very frustrating the full tag can’t shuffle.

[dylan (Dylan Caudill)]

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you here, @Alexander_Bashlaev.

I’ve discussed the behavior you’re reporting with our team and they’ve confirmed that, currently, this is expected. Tags only work with content that is in your library — This is why you can only add Tags to the albums, artists, and tracks that are in your library.

Playlists are a bit different — Playlists can contain content both in your library and outside of your library. When added to a tag, anything in the playlist that is in your library will be played in the tag, but content not in your library will not play.

If you’d like to see this changed, I’d recommend opening a #roon:feature-requests on this subject. You have our apologies for the inconvenience!

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

Thank you for your answer and efforts to solve this issue. But I don’t understand why should I write a feature request about something that used to work before and now is broken. Perhaps then we should say “degrading to a new version” instead of “upgrading”. In fact, this is all very frustrating and disappointing.

[Francois_De_Heel (SwA)]

Thanks Dylan for the info. What is also important here: (1) The tracks in a local copy of a Tidal (or Qobuz) playlist are by default not in your library. Not even if you have favored all your tracks in all your Tidal playlists (in that case you will find the tracks under My Library > Tracks, but the versions there are not the ones that you find in your converted playlists). (2) There is already a six day old feature request related to this issue: Consistent and easy way to add a tag to a track (preferably while playing)

[SimplicityCompass]

Hi Dylan,

It might help to illustrate the above post by @Francois_De_Heel further:

I have a playlist created from my play history - all tracks are in my Roon library:

I also have a local copy of a Quboz playlist, which includes just one track in my Roon library:

Both playlists are in a tag:

If I Shuffle on the tag, my queue shows and plays the tracks only from the playlist created from tracks in my play history:

When I attempt to add all the tracks from the local copy of the Qobuz playlist to my Roon library, the option to do so is unavailable:

The first track in the playlist is already in my Roon library, but still the add icon (’+’) appears:

I attempt to add the track, via the ‘+’ icon, but only see the endless working whirl:

Going back to the playlist, and selecting all tracks but the first, the option to ‘Add to Library’ appears:

But instead, for this test, I want to just add the next track (2nd) in the playlist to my Roon Library.

Selecting the track, then clicking the ‘…’ in a circle icon on the top banner that appears, then ‘Add to Library’ doesn’t work (as shown in the Versions tab):

But if I use the ‘…’ next to the track, to add to my Roon library, it appearantly works:

And as we can see from the playlist, the option to ‘Add to Library’ is now greyed out from the ‘…’, so Roon certainly believes the track is in my library.

Seemingly there is a side issue at play here, that if the ‘Add to Library’ option is greyed out from the ‘… in a circle’ icon (beacuse track(s) are already in your Roon library), then none of the other tracks can be added using that method.

Now to retest Shuffle on tag. The queue still only shows the 5 tracks from the playlist based on my play history (neither the track already in my library, or the one I just added to my library are added to the queue):

I now manually add all the remaining tracks to my Roon library, via the ‘…’ next to each track (testing that Roon thinks they are in my library - as above), and retest the Shuffle. Again, I still just have the five tracks from the other playlist:

Finally, I tried adding the album containing one of the tracks in the playlist to my Roon Library (from the album link on the track details on the specific playlist screen):

The track of the album I just added still isn’t in the tag Shuffle queue:

And just to confirm, the tracks/album I added above appear in the ‘Recent Activity’ - ‘Added’ tab:

But the album (containing the track from the playlist), does not show the track (Goosebumps) being in any playlist:

And I do have the relevant setting enabled:

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Also tagging @Bruce_Orr1 @Alexander_Bashlaev

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

@SimplicityCompass

The queue still only shows the 5 tracks from the playlist based on my play history (neither the track already in my library, or the one I just added to my library are added to the queue)

It’s an old story. Roon treats the same Tidal track (or Qobuz in your case) added to your library and not added to the library as two different records in the database. Since the tracks in the playlist are not from your library, even if you have them in the library, this doesn’t affect this playlist. You can also observe this kind of behavior, when you play an album that is not in your library, and in the middle of the album you decide to add it to the library, but the remaining tracks finish playing from a non-library album and you don’t see on the album page of your library album what is playing. You can distinguish between such library and non-library tracks in the queue by the heart symbols — non-library tracks do not have one.

[SimplicityCompass]

Thanks Alexander,

So now I created a new playlist based on those tracks I added above, added it to a new tag, and the Shuffle from tag works correctly (all 25 tracks):

I don’t understand, if it worked before as you say in your OP, why would Roon remove the ability to just Shuffle from tags with local copies of playlists (with non-library tracks). It now takes multiple and repetitive steps to get the same resulting Queue.

Question to Roon: What functionality was added as a result of this change?

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

You may also encounter this inconvenience when Roon recommends something, you open this album’s page and only on the Versions tab you can understand that you already have this album in your library.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

@SimplicityCompass

I don’t understand, if it worked before as you say in your OP, why would Roon remove the ability

I think this is the answer:

@dylan

The way shuffle works was changed and no longer uses the Roon Radio UI for shuffling. The shuffled tracks are all added to the queue.

Shuffling tags even in 1.8 worked using Roon Radio UI before build 763. This was a workaround when they broke Focus bookmarks and shuffling albums. But since 763 there is no Roon Radio UI for any shuffle. And unfortunately new shuffle logic uses only library content.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

@Alexander_Bashlaev

But since 763 there is no Roon Radio UI for any shuffle. And unfortunately new shuffle logic uses only library content.

@SimplicityCompass But still, as you can see in my original post, we also have a workaround for this: select all playlists with non-library tracks and then shuffle works! (Hopefully in the next version they won’t break this ability either)

[SimplicityCompass]

@Alexander_Bashlaev

But still, as you can see in my original post, we also have a workaround for this: select all playlists with non-library tracks and then shuffle works! (Hopefully in the next version they won’t break this ability either)

Of course, but then you still have to add the tracks in each album from your Roon library to a new playlist, adding that playlist to the tag… for shuffle from tag to include albums. The same lengthy process for other non-playlist tag elements like tracks/compositions…

I assumed that just adding the tracks in a local copy of a TIDAL/Quboz playlist to your Library, in one easy step, from the playlist itself, would be the most simple method to work.

@Alexander_Bashlaev

I think this is the answer:

Indeed.

We can only speculate the reason for the change - more pathways for improvements to/new features; better code, etc… but like so many changes we are not given that information.

I love Roon, but it is becoming increasingly infuriating.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

@SimplicityCompass

but then you still have to add the tracks in each album from your Roon library to a new playlist

No, I mean that you still can shuffle playlists with non-library tracks without any additional actions. Just select all playlists in your tag and click Shuffle from the selection, not from the tag.

[Alexander_Bashlaev]

@SimplicityCompass

We can only speculate the reason for the change

Well, they consider it “wacky” and confusing, but I loved this mode!

@danny

We never let you add more than a few thousand tracks to the queue, but having the ability to shuffle in more than 5000 tracks is an important use case, so we added this wacky shuffle “mode”, which was different than radio, and different to queue shuffle. It created a lot of confusion.

So, to solve this confusion, we decided to eliminate the confusing “shuffle mode” and just add tracks to the queue w/ shuffle on.